US Presidential election 2016

is it possible that like with out election where people don't want to admit before they vote that they will vote Tory..that in the US people may be doing the same re Trump.."ooh no he is a loony"..then go and vote for him

The pollsters have been poor at factoring in the 'shy' vote: shy tories at the 2015 election resulting in an unexpected majority and shy leavers in the referendum resulting in an unexpected brexit

I'd imagine there's been some lessons learnt and polling organizations have now taken heed of the shy variable, of which I reckon Trump-wise there'll be a significant number. If they haven't, then perhaps we're in for another shock and the current >4/1 Trump might look very big the morning after

No bets for me. My understanding of the American psyche and American politics is on a par with my understanding of sprint handicaps - minimal
 
The pollsters have been poor at factoring in the 'shy' vote: shy tories at the 2015 election resulting in an unexpected majority and shy leavers in the referendum resulting in an unexpected brexit

I'd imagine there's been some lessons learnt and polling organizations have now taken heed of the shy variable, of which I reckon Trump-wise there'll be a significant number. If they haven't, then perhaps we're in for another shock and the current >4/1 Trump might look very big the morning after

No bets for me. My understanding of the American psyche and American politics is on a par with my understanding of sprint handicaps - minimal

Polling in Britain is just poor. Everybody talks about Brexit which I suppose is the most spectacular example but the polling for the general election before that was poor as well.
Not sure why that is maybe Warbler has some insight here.

If you believe in Nate Silver at 538 then 4/1 is a big price if you look at say Sam Wang at Princeton then 40/1 would not be big enough.
I caught Larry Sabato, a much respected political analyst, on CNN the other night and he was pretty straight forward in his assessment that Clinton would win convincingly.

I just think in the end having an organizational ground game to get out the vote is still essential and Trump eschewed that for Twitter and 3/4 of Fox media to do the dirty work.
Maybe he breaks the mold but I seriously doubt it.
 
Last edited:
I always permit myself a smile at the whole concept of a "shy" Trump supporter! I mean, have seen or heard these people?

The 'shy' Tory, if my recollection is right, goes back to 1992, and I'm not really sure 'shy' is the right word. It was more commonly suggested that 'selfish' or 'greedy' was a better description at the time. The difference between the expressed preference (an opinion poll) and the revealed preference (a secret ballot) isn't new, and it's particularly prevalent in areas like environmental policy. Basically for a few years earlier the pollsters had been finding that people were prepared to pay an extra penny in tax if they could have a better education system or other public services. What people really meant is that they supported everyone else paying an extra penny on income tax, but not them. This is where the Tories scored with their 'double whammy' and 'Labours tax bombshell'. There were other areas of perceived greed against the greater public good too which subsequent research discovered had impacted on decisions. Council house sales, Utility privatisations (the windfall share issue) and the carpet bagging of Building Socieities all contributed to people giving the socially responsible answer to surveys, and then doing something different under the protection of secrecy

To some extent the same thing might have surfaced again in 2015, but I'm not so convinced that the modelling failed to allocate the undecideds myself. I just have a feeling that a lot of those people who made a decision on the day broke very heavily for Cameron (undecideds were in the polls but largely overlooked in favour of the headline figure). I was pretty well spot on with my own prediction (2 seats wrong) but it was based on 80% of undecideds looking at Ed Miliband and saying 'no thanks'

Now whether or not Trump is picking up any ashamed support is questionable. The only straw he might have to clutch at are automated polls (like the one the LA Times have been running that's continually given him high support) and to a lesser extent tracking polls. Are people more inclined to give an honest answer to an anomynous internet poll? I don't see why? America monitors its internet to the point where it wouldn't be secret anyway, albeit the rank and file public wouldn't know obviously. Also insurance companies will tell you that people filling out information on-line are actually more inclined to lie than if they had a voice asking the questions.

The polls in America have also shown violent swings. Differences of 10pts between the two candidates over the same sample period aren't unheard of by any stretch. I think some of this owes a lot however to the larger and more respected pollsters increasingly taking private commissions and cutting back their public polling in the last month in particular. Basically they don't get the exposure they're used to, if their poll is just being rolled up into the RCP average. The vacuum has also been filled by a lot of universities and smaller market research firms desperate to make a name for themselves, and this has created a lot of noise. I suspect Nate's model has probably cut through this better than most.

The shy Tory was really associated with concealed greed I'd suggest. I'm not sure that applies to shy Trumpsters. The more likely galvanising factor there would shy hate, which is why I wouldn't be shocked to see NH fall, as they've had a bit of a history in this area (admittedly in Republican primaries, and this is a wider constituency)
 
Last edited:
The fun and games is ramping up. Trump has initiated a law suit against the Clark county (Nevada) registrar for improper early voting. The he goes on Fox News just now and claims that there are reports of rigged voting machines where the voter votes Republican and the machine switches it to Democrat. This guy just continues to top himself with his diabolical claims. Hilarious if it wasn't so serious.
 
I think the nightmare result for the GOP would be a Trump defeat by about 10 college votes (or North Carolina). Trump (and his supporters) will waste no time turning on the likes of Ryan and Priebus. It would be even worse if the decisive blow came from previously unengaged hispnaic voters who had registered and participated for the first time. Basically their post 2012 strategy of running on a more friendly platform will be in tatters. Not only will Trump has destroyed it, but for a generation at least the GOP will be seen as the anti hispanic/ latino party. But here's the rub, if Trump is able to get to something like 260 and only just missed out, he'll be able to claim that he out performed Romney and McCain. His supportes needn't be ready for changing direction

Going forward what do they have? Cruz only endorsed him late when he realised he'd need Trump supporters for a 2019/20 run and didn't want to risk being held repsonsible for the defeat. Rubio? maybe, but I doubt it. Mike Pence as the continuity Donald candidate. Anyone who has romantic ideas that Ivanka Trump will enter the fray is deluded (she's a Democrat anyway!). I'd guess Nikki Haley will be in position by then
 
He'll need to marry first to cement the traditional conservative claim

I'm more inclined to think that alt right will continue their advance to be honest given that the background music for the rest of the decade is likely to hum to Islam

In much the same way as the Tea Party replaced the Paleocon, I suspect Trumps fifth column of alt righters is the way the GOP goes as they embrace European nationalism
 
He'll need to marry first to cement the traditional conservative claim

I'm more inclined to think that alt right will continue their advance to be honest given that the background music for the rest of the decade is likely to hum to Islam

In much the same way as the Tea Party replaced the Paleocon, I suspect Trumps fifth column of alt righters is the way the GOP goes as they embrace European nationalism

Don't think that will happen but if so they'll eliminate themselves from governing for a long time.
The more likely scenario to me is that the traditional reps will start something new if the alt right trolls actually gain control.
 
These bets on the trump states are looking monstrous got 5/2 florida in single,running on 4 others looks like he's going to win..
 
This is one crazy year

I'm surprised (not shocked) but very surprised. There was a theoretical narrow path, but a very difficult one to navigate. It looks like he might have found it
 
well it looks like the "shy" Trump voters do exist then Warbler..they are that shy..even when they have voted they are still "shy" with the exit polsters:)
 
Last edited:
Simpsons_zpsvozeuw3q.gif
 
polling for the general election before that was poor as well.
Not sure why that is maybe Warbler has some insight here.

You can over complicate things too much..its simply "shy" voting tricking the pollsters...in the general election..people don't want to admit they vote Tory..in the brexit one..a % of those who voted leave didn't want to be judged as "racist" for voting out..so they said when asked that they voted stay....its simple really..there is nothing complicated about human nature.

its down to people not wanting to be seen to aligning to something that is seen as a betrayal or they think embarrasing in some way..and at the end of the day..the labels the media tend to spread around gets into people heads..when asked..people don't want a certain label sticking on them..ie..you voted out then did you?..oh you must be a racist then

in the US one its ..folk don't want to be seen to align to sexist "barmy" Trump..so they say Clinton
 
Last edited:
Trump won't win. No chance. He's entertainment for now but basically a clown. He has lead but he doesn't exactly have a large share of vote. His vote is a reflection of current profile. That will change .

His victory was assured on August 9th, 2015
 
He has the highest negative ratings of any candidate since 1980 I read somewhere.

He is not winning america at all. I'm sure smug lefty old europe would live to think that the dim colonials know no better

and again on November 28th
 
well it looks like the "shy" Trump voters do exist then Warbler..they are that shy..even when they have voted they are still "shy" with the exit polsters:)

I refer you to post #58

He's actually pulled off a route I speculated existed sometime around February (one that involved Wisconsin and Pennsylvania) it's just there wasn't really any evidence he could add those to Ohio, Indiana, and Iowa, and I don't think anyone (other than Ann Coulter) saw Michigan coming. Wisconsin always had a particularly favourable demographic (on paper) but having failed to win the primary there, you just couldn't see how he'd flip what was a Democrat state

I thought he'd win around January, but then came out of the idea around June and never really embraced it again (until a few hours ago)

I think the genesis of this probably goes back to the credit crunch and the data led recovery that has happened since. The bottom line is too many people just aren't any better off than they were circa 2008. You can talk about creating new jobs, but it isn't disguising the fact that too many of them are low paid, or basically shite jobs with lousy terms and conditions.

The next one that might fall of course is France in May. If they elect Marinne Le Pen (and they shouldn't do) then the whole of the EU is suddenly up for renegotiation. Talking of May, one suspects that Theresa might be having to consider whether she can keep her Foreign Secretary in post now. Trump has let it be known that he'll look positively at a trade deal with the UK and has spoken with admiration for Brexit. Hillary was basically pedalling the Obama line of 'back of the queue'. Brexiteers might have a life line with yellow hair and orange skin

I see Putin has a flotilla lined up on Aleppo this morning.

Let the madness commence!!!
 
Last edited:
he will be spluttering into his brekky this morning

one down..now its just Corbyn for Prime Minister:) left to defy the pollsters.

i seem to remember Clive had great faith in polls..was shoving them up all the time..mmmm
 
The world is in a lot worse place today than it was yesterday. Rampant nationalism/tribalism everywhere. All these people wearing poppies do they have any clue what started all that despair 100 years ago.
To my former compatriots all the best with your make America great again project, Somehow I don't see that happening but after this election what do I know. Renunciation proceedings start today for me.
I'm done with politics in this lifetime.

G man: Glad to see somebody made a mint from this debacle.
 
thats why i was puzzled by post 1004 Warb

i actually based my bet on the Torys to win outright..just on the shy voter angle...to beat the shy voter % Labour need to be leading in polls just to be even with the Tories

shy voting is messing up these polls generally imo..and the more extreme teh choice..the more its skewed
 
Last edited:
Officially the day America lost the plot. May as well have elected Dr Evil to president. Gun controls going to go out the door completely.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 
Back
Top