Brexit

Brexit, Stay or Leave.

  • Stay

    Votes: 28 59.6%

  • Leave

    Votes: 19 40.4%
  • Total voters
    47
clivex said:
youre a liar. Because there are two very explicit examples (at least) where I made very clear the strengths of the eu

and I have stated on many occasions that I'm relatively relaxed about immigration.

if you have a problem with a point deal witn it and front up. Not interested otherwise no matter how many "papers" you have scribbled down in green ink on the back of a cornflake packet
Click to expand...
You really proved me wrong on the arrogance call with your little edit there, why the delay with the insult? Did you have to get a grown up to help with the big words??
 
Drone said:
I was referring to the increasing burden on Health, Housing, Education and Transport services: services that are stretched now and seem wholly ill-equipped to deal with the increase in population forecast or even a smallish percentage of it

'Migrants who claim benefits' is an easy emotion beloved of such as the Daily Mail, of little importance compared to the above. I have little doubt that immigrants en-masse provide a positive contribution to the economy

But the positive influx need doctors, houses, teachers and road&rail; and it's these that UK can't cope with

We're over-populated IMVHO

Whither the beleaguered greenbelt, or even the Great Glen :)
Click to expand...

I get that Drone, however, anyone working (aka is paying Tax) is a net-contributor, and no more a 'burden' on the NHS or anything else, than thee or me. If Governements choose to under-invest in a particular sector or function, then that is a different matter. IMO.

Regardless, my desire for a comparison, was to see whether it exposed any 'burden' associated with that version of Immigration that Leave do advocate - the Commonwealth/Atlantic kind, if we can call it that. I suspect that the Leave suggestion that it is EU migrants alone that represent a 'burden' to be fraudulent - I just wondered if there were any stats to support (or repudiate) that theory.
 
Last edited:
Grasshopper said:
I get that Drone, however, anyone working (aka is paying Tax) is a net-contributor, and no more a 'burden' on the NHS or anything else, than thee or me. If Governements choose to under-invest in a particular sector or function, then that is a different matter. IMO.

Regardless, my desire for a comparison, was to see if whether it exposed any 'burden' associated with that version of Immigration that Leave do advocate - the Commonwealth/Atlantic kind, if we can call it that. I suspect that the Leave suggestion that it is EU migrants alone that represent a 'burden' to be fraudulent - I just wondered if there were any stats to support (or repudiate) that theory.
Click to expand...

you cannot possibly build infrastructure quickly enough to cope with immigration that some will see as excessive

what the leave campaign suggest is a version of the Australian points system. That way you have control over who enters rather than untrammelled. I am not certain it's correct because you can't always judge exact requirements and the counter argument is that the market decides

however, as I understand it, what you do have is that if there is a vacancy for a surgeon say, you have to take the eu applicant ratehr than the Indian of Australian regardless of experience or qualifications
 
Last edited:
Our need for collosal infrastructure upgrade is driven not by migration, but years of under-investment.

However, I get the point being made.

I still believe the immigration argument is insufficient justification for exiting the EU. But I do concede there is an issue with the concept of free movement. However, a vote to Remain should be viewed as a sign of empowerment, and a desire to be in the vanguard in Europe, rather than be towed-along as we have been.

Better that we remain and lead on reform of the current legislation. Other countries want it too - it would be like pushing on an open-door, I reckon.
 
clivex said:
Sure but shouldn't all English are stupid comments be addressed instead ?
Click to expand...

What is wrong with saying I find the reasoning of English stupid? Stupid English is just a description of what I believe to be a narrow-minded, closed-minded, economically-illiterate, inward-focusing mindset. I believe those things are stupid, you may not.
 
Grasshopper said:
Our need for collosal infrastructure upgrade is driven not by migration, but years of under-investment.

However, I get the point being made.

I still believe the immigration argument is insufficient justification for exiting the EU. But I do concede there is an issue with the concept of free movement. However, a vote to Remain should be viewed as a sign of empowerment, and a desire to be in the vanguard in Europe, rather than be towed-along as we have been.

Better that we remain and lead on reform of the current legislation. Other countries want it too - it would be like pushing on an open-door, I reckon.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

If Britain leave and want access to the single market (if they get it), they will have to have free movement of labour anyway, but on the terms of the EU, not their own.
 
Grasshopper said:
Our need for collosal infrastructure upgrade is driven not by migration, but years of under-investment.

However, I get the point being made.

I still believe the immigration argument is insufficient justification for exiting the EU. But I do concede there is an issue with the concept of free movement. However, a vote to Remain should be viewed as a sign of empowerment, and a desire to be in the vanguard in Europe, rather than be towed-along as we have been.

Better that we remain and lead on reform of the current legislation. Other countries want it too - it would be like pushing on an open-door, I reckon.
Click to expand...

migration has been far higher than expected. Ok that's a good thing reflecting the economy but give an example. Londons population was 6m in 1981 and is projected to reach 11m by 2020 (I think). Who would have predicted that?

I will admit i can see that. Maybe Wolfgang is right and a close vote will be the catalyst. But I'm not convinced.
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
what the leave campaign suggest is a version of the Australian points system. That way you have control over who enters rather than untrammelled. I am not certain it's correct because you can't always judge exact requirements and the counter argument is that the market decides
Click to expand...

The UK already applies a points based system for aspiring migrants from outside the EU. This link is to an EU website but the info on it comes from the Home Office:

http://ec.europa.eu/immigration/wha...ed-kingdom/worker/highly-qualified-worker_en#
 
Perhaps a Chinese style one baby policy is the way forward. It would have the added benefit of us not having to pay child benefit to English professional benefit claimants (who said they were stupid??).
 
Mandatory sterilisation with the procedure only reversed when you can put the comma in the right place in, a sentence.

That should weed-out the stragglers in the gene-pool.
 
AliGupter said:
Well there's the debate about heavy smokers and drinkers being a burden on the NHS, fat tax etc.
Click to expand...

Don't think there's much debate required. I believe that the duty generated from alcohol and tobacco consumption more than covers the cost incurred by the NHS in treating the consequences of over-indulgence. Perhaps similar levels of duty should be added to junk food

Furthermore they die younger thereby saving the NHS a fortune looking after physically fit 90 year olds with the livers and lungs of a 20 year old and the minds of a 2 year old
 
Does anyone else have the impression Leave are already off in the distance and have won the argument and have all the momentum and that this race is as good as over?
 
simmo said:
Perhaps a Chinese style one baby policy is the way forward. It would have the added benefit of us not having to pay child benefit to English professional benefit claimants (who said they were stupid??).
Click to expand...

were you a second child then?
 
Hamm said:
Does anyone else have the impression Leave are already off in the distance and have won the argument and have all the momentum and that this race is as good as over?
Click to expand...
No. For every person leaning to leave there is another person somewhere else deciding to stay I reckon.
The slight difference is that the former are being over estimated in current calculations.

As for Clive, he's been a good servant to forum debates for many a year, but only a while ago he was saying he was "52-48" in favour of staying in. As soon as leave/brexit has a chance of winning he decides he really believes in leave. :)
 
Last edited:
Back
Top