Brexit

Brexit, Stay or Leave.

  • Stay

    Votes: 28 59.6%

  • Leave

    Votes: 19 40.4%
  • Total voters
    47
clivex said:
grass they do but think it through

Raw materials price going up by 10% say. raw materials are probably 20% of value? if that? £200 on a 10k car

Export price down by 10%. £1k no loss of margin. You easily cover the £200 with £800 to spare in the market
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20% of £10k is £2000.

Grass - it isn't up to the other 27 how long they have to wait. They can't force us out or force us to serve notice. The reality is that if parliament don't feel it is in our best interests to come out - they won't vote for it.

For such a monumental decision I think it is sensible for both sides to negotiate and then let us decide again. Politicians are paid to mediate and make this world better in my view. Now it is up to them to do just that.
 
Grasshopper said:
Dearie me.

Angela Merkel's spokesman rejects "informal" exit talks before the UK files formal notice of leaving the EU by triggering Article 50, according to the Associated Press.
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Which is bollocks and for public consumption only

There is absolutely no way there are no soundings on this. From both sides. Its happening right now as we will find out in time
 
Part time punter said:
20% of £10k is £2000.

Grass - it isn't up to the other 27 how long they have to wait. They can't force us out or force us to serve notice. The reality is that if parliament don't feel it is in our best interests to come out - they won't vote for it.

For such a monumental decision I think it is sensible for both sides to negotiate and then let us decide again. Politicians are paid to mediate and make this world better in my view. Now it is up to them to do just that.
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its 10% of the 20% read it again
 
Grasshopper said:
Angela Merkel's spokesman rejects "informal" exit talks before the UK files formal notice of leaving the EU by triggering Article 50, according to the Associated Press.
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I'm skeptical. It has all the hallmarks of something that's put out for consumption elsewhere. It's not a statement that's consistent with Merkels no rush position that she came out with over the weekend, which incidentally contradicted her Foreign Secretary. What is she going to do if the phone goes? "tell him I'm not in", "tell him I'm doing my hair"
 
It's not a conspiracy, its an observation as to how politics works. If you want to naively believe everything that every spokesperson has said fair enough, but let me break it to you gently. In politics people routinely lie and misdirect, especially where sensitive issues are involved, and especially when you're trying to balance a number of competing and conflicting interests. One of the reasons politicians use spokespeople is to create "plausible denial", it protects them from having to say something themselves which they know not to be true and which could come back to embarrass them in the future.

Any seasoned watcher of these things could quickly see how Merkel was echoing Cameron within hours, yet her own Foreign Minister wasn't. Draw your own conclusions as to why you think the German Chancellor was on message with Cameron's timetable
 
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Grass - it isn't up to the other 27 how long they have to wait. They can't force us out or force us to serve notice. The reality is that if parliament don't feel it is in our best interests to come out - they won't vote for it.

For such a monumental decision I think it is sensible for both sides to negotiate and then let us decide again. Politicians are paid to mediate and make this world better in my view. Now it is up to them to do just that.
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Suit yourselves, you always have anyway, but why do you expect new negotiations will achieve anything more than Cameron's earlier charade?
 
Grasshopper said:
Suit yourself. Go and sit in the corner with Clive and the rest of the conspiracy-theorist cranks.
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thats nuts. warbler explains it to a level but its the way the world works

Its like a football transfer or a corporate takeover. "on no there has been no contact whatsoever" yeah right.

I'm sure quite a lot has been agreed and Poland is a fair price to pay
 
Angie has just gone on German television flanked by her sister party's leader and stated unequivocally that there will be no informal talks before article 50 is triggered. To include "negotiations" "soundings" whatever.
End of story.
 
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brendanr said:
Angie has just gone on German television flanked by her sister party's leader and stated unequivocally that there will be no informal talks before article 50 is triggered. To include "negotiations" "soundings" whatever.
End of story.
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Exactly.

Let's just not believe anything we don't like.

Much simpler.
 
clivex said:
thats nuts. warbler explains it to a level but its the way the world works

Its like a football transfer or a corporate takeover. "on no there has been no contact whatsoever" yeah right.

I'm sure quite a lot has been agreed and Poland is a fair price to pay
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Here's the dichotomy.

When I present a direct quote, it is rubbished as naivety.

When you present a quote, it is put-away as an absolute truth.

Neither you nor Warbler can have it both ways.....and neither you nor Warbler have anything to tell me about how the world works, that I don't already know.

Got it? Good.

Now that we have established the ground rules, I don't expect to see anyone directly quoted by either of you in future. Which is a bit of a shame really, as it basically means your contributions will be limited to the usual combination of patronising hot-air and conspiracy-theory guff.
 
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Cameron should not negociete nothing
he should be already at his home, a new prime minister should be the one to do the deals and take the country out of the EU.
 
Warbler said:
Oh well, looks as if he's pissed her off as well
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come on you can do better than that. Cave in to dullards like grass? who throw down 3rd form name calling but cannot come close to answering the logic ?

there isn't seemingly much experience of the real world amongst some posters here but history has always shown that backdoor communication is par for the course, unless completely at war

Secondly there are countless relationships across the continent forged throughout the years at high levels. Not talking at all? no soundings? Absolutely no chance

all sides will be looking to get a feel for their positions on any number of things before the start. it will work both ways. its all part of the process (can't believe this needs pointing out..)

If cameron wants to know what spain thinks any number of ways of finding out. and vice versa.

The moment you start exchanging information you are negotiating.

negotiations are informal as well as formal. they involve positioning. that is exactly what is happening now.

Anyone who now thinks that there is total radio silence between th eu and the uk has not got a clue
 
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Warbler said:
It's not a conspiracy, its an observation as to how politics works. If you want to naively believe everything that every spokesperson has said fair enough, but let me break it to you gently. In politics people routinely lie and misdirect, especially where sensitive issues are involved, and especially when you're trying to balance a number of competing and conflicting interests. One of the reasons politicians use spokespeople is to create "plausible denial", it protects them from having to say something themselves which they know not to be true and which could come back to embarrass them in the future.

Any seasoned watcher of these things could quickly see how Merkel was echoing Cameron within hours, yet her own Foreign Minister wasn't. Draw your own conclusions as to why you think the German Chancellor was on message with Cameron's timetable
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This is spot on
 
clivex said:
come on you can do better than that. Cave in to dullards like grass? who throw down 3rd form name calling but cannot come close to answering the logic ?

there isn't seemingly much experience of the real world amongst some posters here but history has always shown that backdoor communication is par for the course, unless completely at war

Secondly there are countless relationships across the continent forged throughout the years at high levels. Not talking at all? no soundings? Absolutely no chance

all sides will be looking to get a feel for their positions on any number of things before the start. it will work both ways. its all part of the process (can't believe this needs pointing out..)

Thirdly negotiations are informal as well as formal. they involve positioning. that is exactly what is happening now.

Anyone who thinks that there is total radio silence between th eu and the uk now is a cretin frankly
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More drivel. The UK have no cards to play, the EU knows this, and there is consequently zero motivation for them to get involved in side-bar conversations. This is a divorce - not a discussion about who is going to pay for dinner.

PS. I think you will find my name-calling is Jedi-Master level. Now fu*ck-off back to your petri-dish, you single-cell cu*nt.
 
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"The uk have no cards to play"

Thats how you would talk to your walking away biggest customer is it? Even so called remain economists have stated that this is a two way street in terms of impact. How can it not be

I don't think you should be let near negotiating the milk bill.

Anyway. either go through it point by point or donate bother. There are countless examples to back this up
 
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Grey said:
Suit yourselves, you always have anyway, but why do you expect new negotiations will achieve anything more than Cameron's earlier charade?
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Sorry, first time I've posted on this thread so I'm not sure who you are lumping me in with and what their views are? I don't think any more negotiations will achieve anything quite frankly. Which is why I expect Boris, Gove and Farage to come back with their tails between their legs and have to hold their hands up and say we got it wrong sorry. If anyone other than those three does the negotiating then they will just say the people doing it didn't try hard enough or believe in it.

I don't believe we will exit, just my view.

I voted to remain, reluctantly as I believe the EU will unravel like Fifa with people going to jail for accepting all sorts of bribes and gold watches.
 
clivex said:
"The uk have no cards to play"

Thats how you would talk to your walking away biggest customer is it?

The ira were not exactly there for a dinner date either and what happened there?

Anyway. either go through it point by point or donate bother
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Stop wasting my time.
 
- 23 out of 31 members of the shadow cabinet have departed
- the remaining members are: Jeremy Corbyn, Tom Watson, Rosie Winterton, John McDonnell, Andy Burnham, Emily Thornberry, Jon Trickett and Diane Abbott

and this is what Corbyn is all about...


https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/747413070486581248


 
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Part time punter said:
Sorry, first time I've posted on this thread so I'm not sure who you are lumping me in with and what their views are? I don't think any more negotiations will achieve anything quite frankly. Which is why I expect Boris, Gove and Farage to come back with their tails between their legs and have to hold their hands up and say we got it wrong sorry. If anyone other than those three does the negotiating then they will just say the people doing it didn't try hard enough or believe in it.

I don't believe we will exit, just my view.

I voted to remain, reluctantly as I believe the EU will unravel like Fifa with people going to jail for accepting all sorts of bribes and gold watches.
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Boris had spoken before about negotiating a new deal and having a second referendum, so apologies for assuming you were following his logic.

I can't imagine Boris or the others ever admitting they got it wrong; if (when, more likely) there are no new concessions they'd be more likely to return home complaining about intransigence in Brussels and saying there is no choice but to continue along the path towards exit.

You make an important point about who should be handling the process on the British side from now on. Most of the government party were in the Remain camp, so how do they go about implementing a decision they don't agree with? Does anyone think there has to be a general election?
 
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