Brexit

Brexit, Stay or Leave.

  • Stay

    Votes: 28 59.6%
  • Leave

    Votes: 19 40.4%

  • Total voters
    47
London also voted remain, so should they go it alone?

If they want a referendum to decide their own fate, then yes, they should be allowed to go if they so decide. Any group of people who feel the need to be separately identified should be allowed the democratic right of self-determination.
 
I heard 43% quoted on the radio but either way, 'their future', ( I actually heard a student being interviewed on the radio saying he would vote remain as he wouldn't be allowed to go to France as part of his degree otherwise.................) and most of them couldn't be bothered to go and put a cross in a box.

34% or 43%, whichever it's pathetic and shaming. I do hope this becomes common knowledge so that the young, naiive and lazy cease moaning about such things as 'selfish baby-boomers'

I've also heard rumours circulating that a significant number (of all ages presumably) who wanted to Remain actually voted Leave simply as a two-fingers to Cameron, believing that 'their vote didn't matter as we're obviously going to vote to stay in the EU'

True or not I don't know
 
Brief look at both articles from the soon to close smallest circulation daily brendan

Just out of interest Clive, do you believe that circulation and sales are the ultimate proxy indicator regarding the validity of the message? I can think of someone who constantly invokes it as a measure when he hears an opinion that he doesn't like, and is currently embroilled in a dispute with the Washington Post, but believe me, its not the sort of company you'd want to be keeping
 
I really sense a kind of semi-organised movement/operation/campaign being gathered to force a second referendum.
There does seem to be a methodical effort at work to condition the public into accepting another vote on the issue. I see it across all the media -- interviewing distressed Remainers and "desolate" europeans resident in the UK, and I see it in the hints being dropped by some members of parliament. Maybe I'm imagining ...............
 
Warbler . It's neither here nor there. I just like saying it because there are so many of the readers here. In fact more here claim to read it than the actual circulation figure so someone is lying
 
it is a system problem, the conservative having a stupid like Camerón making this referéndum

It's difficult to have any sympathy with Cameron. He held all the cards, and all the advantage, and yet as an exercise in statecraft he's been out-manourvered by a local conservative party saloon bar bore, who has managed to build up enough pressure to force a Prime Minister into a seriously flawed decision that has potentially massive reprecusions (it isn't a judgement with hindsight as his apologists are now suggesting - the stupidity of this could, was, and should have been foreseen)

Cameron is (and always was) the sort of consultant you'd trust to pitch a sale with a powerpoint presentation but wouldn't allow anywhere near the project management. During the last election he mocked Ed Miliband for refusing to commit to this injudicious vote. The thing is this. Miliband was (and still is) a policy wonk. These guys might lack campaign verve, but policy wonks tend to immerse themselves in detail and strategy and don't make mistakes born out of cavalier bravado. Cameron had the opportunity to govern unchallenged for years, and yet he's conspired to throw it all away. He is the architect of his own demise 100%

Not only has a committed a grave error, he also stoked it by setting up his own corrosive drip feed for over a decade, both in opposition and in government. He's constantly been sniping about the Euro (he'd probably go crazy if European leaders started bad mouthing sterling now). He blamed the double dip recession on the Europe. He cemented things like the Human Rights Act, and Health & Safety legislation in the public consciousness as being bad European creations too. He pedalled the red tape myth. He alienated the UK in Europe with his own aloof manner and ended up pretty well friendless (even indulging mocking impersonations of accents, whilst his Foreign Secretary called the French "cheese eating surrender monkeys"). He took his own group out of the mainstream and allied them with fringe nationalists. He's been massively critical of Europe over their approach to Russia. The irony is that they could well ease sanctions on Putin now if the latest mood music from Germany's Foreign Secretary is an indicator, whilst the UK finds itself facing future tariffs!!! (we'll see). Then after laying down all these disparaging foundations, he turns around the country and tries to secure a positive vote! Is he mad?

He's also been feeding the refugee narrative too, even going so far as to compare them with insects I'd suggest when using the word "swarms". This kind of mixed messaging is bound to create confusion, and when you throw in a complex multi-facted subject matter, and a divvy electorate, it's a potent cocktail

So can he really be surprised when a degree of anti-European sentiment starts to surface and ultimately costs him his job?

The irony is that another European initiative he opposed (a European army) is going to be about the political leverage he has for negotiating a soft landing. I do wonder though if there is any scope for him to salvage this yet using emergency powers? We'll see. I expect the BriGret movement to grow and Cameron to come under pressure to try and do something to repair this.

I always said he was a berk
 
Ice.. Dare I suggest the bbc? Dimbleby and Andrew Neil were quite superb during the coverage but I have picked up snatches since and there was a pretty disgracefully sneering supposed report on r4 yesterday.
 
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Cameron was quite right to bad mouth the euro project. Who didn't? That is an entirely different matter to taking down the exchange rate

i don't buy that he's stoked anti European sentiment at all. Most of what you have mentioned has barely registered with voters

im not bothered whether he has personal fiends in Europe or not. He's not there to get dinner party invites. It would also be entirely wrong to say the uk was friendless in the eu if that is the suggestion.

he did not want the job "for years" he had initiated he was leaving anyway

im not a defender of him and pretty neutral about his abilities.
 
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Ice.. Dare I suggest the bbc?
Spot on ! That's primarily the news outlet I had in mind. The new petition is getting big publicity and push.
There is a lot of scaring going on -- how British people can't go on their holiday to Spain; how european workers in Britain might be summarily kicked out; all sorts of bollox.
And I notice some Labour MP has now got in the act by calling for a Parliamentary vote next week to enable a new referendum.

If this happens -- a 2nd referendum -- it will be a mighty kick in the arse for democracy and the will of the people.
 
Something's moving. Think UK and DE are talking to arrange something beneficial to both sides. Germany really doesn't want to lose its good UK relationship. The war is long over. DE is unwilling to be so dominant on the continent and UK probably won't like it either., alas. Germany really could be UK friend now.

Was mentioned on here that Scotland could remain in single market and maintain presence in GB on separation. Problem for UK is remaining in a single market maintains free movement which seems the overwhelming issue.

Euro countries are unlikely to leave the EU with a free vote.
 
Ice.. Dare I suggest the bbc?
Spot on ! That's primarily the news outlet I had in mind. The new petition is getting big publicity and push.
There is a lot of scaring going on -- how British people can't go on their holiday to Spain; how european workers in Britain might be summarily kicked out; all sorts of bollox.
And I notice some Labour MP has now got in the act by calling for a Parliamentary vote next week to enable a new referendum.

If this happens -- a 2nd referendum -- it will be a mighty kick in the arse for democracy and the will of the people.
 
So can he really be surprised when a degree of anti-European sentiment starts to surface and ultimately costs him his job?
There is ant-European sentiment across all of the countries in Europe -- in some (eg France) it is at a higher level than in the UK.
So how you can blame Cameron is a little beyond me.
 
I really sense a kind of semi-organised movement/operation/campaign being gathered to force a second referendum.

It's not without complete precedent. Rejected treaties ahve been voted on again.

I was always of the view that the whole referendum should never have been called. I'm certainly prepared to speculate that the 2% swing that would be necessary to over-turn this result could be achieved now if only because Cameron has stepped down

I believe the Prime Minister has emergency powers he could always invoke, and if parliament really wanted to stick it out, they could simply refuse to pass the bill. The next three months will be critical. If we start seeing waves of consequential bad news - well, I'd say we haven't heard the last of it
 
the one and only justification for a second referendum would be if the eu tabled a shed load of concessions. Perhaps annexation of Brittany and Normandy would be a start.

not going to happen. For a start I bet juncker is delighted we are out .
 
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the one and only justification for a second referendum would be if the eu tabled a shed load of concessions. Perhaps annexation of Brittany and Normandy would be a start.

Abolition of the Eurovision Song Contest would be enough
 
the one and only justification for a second referendum would be if the eu tabled a shed load of concessions. Perhaps annexation of Brittany and Normandy would be a start.

not going to happen. For a start juncker is delighted we are out .

If Leave were exposed as having no fu*cking plan whatsoever, or if it was established that they blatantly lied during the campaign, would either of those be reason enough?

Or should we just suck it up like saps?
 
If Leave were exposed as having no fu*cking plan whatsoever, or if it was established that they blatantly lied during the campaign, would either of those be reason enough?

Or should we just suck it up like saps?

leave couldn't seriously have a plan. They are not the government. Effectively it's out of their hands . But I do reckon that they were understandably not expecting the win.

A campaign with lies? The horror of it
 
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So you advocate voting for people who haven't the first fu*cking clue?

Hold the front-page, Scoop!!
 
So you advocate voting for people who haven't the first fu*cking clue?

Hold the front-page, Scoop!!

they cannot say how they are going to negotiate the exit because in the first instance they clearly won't be doing so. I have no doubt that boris has ideas as to how he might handle things if he gets the leadership but it's a big if.

if it's Teresa may then the leave team are powerless.
 
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