Juddmonte International

When he beat Cavalryman and Shalanaya. Not saying this is necessarily good enough to win but his race in Ireland was only his 6th start and he was/is (I hope) a horse on the upgrade.
 
Hamm said:
When he beat Cavalryman and Shalanaya. Not saying this is necessarily good enough to win but his race in Ireland was only his 6th start and he was/is (I hope) a horse on the upgrade.
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I do not think that form entitles him to be similar price to Byword or Twice Over. Like I said much earlier in this thread, the current price is tempting as you are getting a price about him taking a big jump forward on his French form - he needs to improve on that considerably imo. Anything much shorter would be a terrible price.
 
I never said it did.

He's a 10 or 12/1 shot for me. I think he was probably running around the 119/120p mark in France (after only 5 runs), and whilst he has virtually no chance if Rip runs to his Sandown/Sussex form from last year (he is in the same boat as all the rest here), if Rip underperforms like his last 4 runs, then he only has 3/4 pounds to make up. Not much.
 
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I did like the way Byword won so cosily at Ascot and hes my pick. I just sense we may have seen the best of RVW and cant have DT on breeding, which is still the salient factor for stamina for me. However, if he does stay, the way he hits the front and battles away would be perfect for York
 
He won the Ganay quite cosily IMO - Shalanaya wasn't beaten far on fast ground in the Prince of Wales, Pallodio hasn't run since, Celimene was a close 4th (beaten 1 1/4 lengths) in the Grand Prix De Deauville with Youmzain and Daryakana just in front of her, Starlish has been beaten twice since, Chinchon was beaten next time out but went on to win a Grade 1 at Monmouth, King of Sydney was beaten over a mile in Italy on his next start (no starts since), Court Canibal ran Stacelita to under two lengths on his next start but has been beaten twice since and The Bogberry hasn't run since.
 
The question was what price would he be - IMO that would be a similar price to the two Khalid Abdullah horses (who would obviously be bigger than they are at th emin) or so had he not run at The Curragh, purely on the basis that he's an unbeaten Group 1 winner who has form that ties in closely with a high class older horse and the form of his last race is working out well enough.
 
clivex said:
I did like the way Byword won so cosily at Ascot and hes my pick. I just sense we may have seen the best of RVW and cant have DT on breeding, which is still the salient factor for stamina for me. However, if he does stay, the way he hits the front and battles away would be perfect for York
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Agree with you on Byword - as I've said previously I'm still to be convinced that we've seen the Rip of 2009 this year and going back nearly a year to find a top class performance from a horse priced up at at a top price of 2/1 wouldn't be for me.

If he bounces back then he's definitely the one they have to beat but for me it's a pretty big if.
 
The market can say what it likes, I would not back him at the likely price range he will be in tomorrow and as for Cutlass Bay, he has so much to prove after the last day. Even had he not run he would be 7/1 minimum if only for the gap between runs. You can have him at 33.
 
I just can't have DT in this. The breeding says no as has been discussed.

Just looking at the last two runs of his 2yo career - I'm not that sure he truly stayed the 7f at that point - at the start of this season I think then that 7f was his trip..with development he now gets the 8f

probably not reading it right but just the feeling I get glancing over his career

the chance of him suddenly getting 10.3f after just growing into an 8f horse is unlikely.

The more i look at the race the more I like RVW..I just don't see it with Twice Over or Byword
 
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Let me be ultra simplistic. Twice Over is a genuine group 1 beast and was beat by Byword last time out. Rip Van Winkle needs two runs to be right if you believe the soundbites and is as short as 7/4. Its a no brainer. Get out the baseball bat and knock the 3/1 out of the park.
 
Gearoid said:
Let me be ultra simplistic. Twice Over is a genuine group 1 beast and was beat by Byword last time out. Rip Van Winkle needs two runs to be right if you believe the soundbites and is as short as 7/4. Its a no brainer. Get out the baseball bat and knock the 3/1 out of the park.
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that POW form is poor though isn't it? - I just can't see it passing RVW tomorrow.

i think the real RVW is going to turn up and turn this into a procession..primed and ready

3/1 Byword doesn't look appealing to me..i just can't see this at all..maybe i'm missing something obvious

just feel its time to go in on RVW

its going to be a fascinating clash isn't it?
 
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Gearoid said:
Let me be ultra simplistic. Twice Over is a genuine group 1 beast and was beat by Byword last time out. Rip Van Winkle needs two runs to be right if you believe the soundbites and is as short as 7/4. Its a no brainer. Get out the baseball bat and knock the 3/1 out of the park.
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Completely agree. They are the wrong way round for my money.
 
trackside528 said:
Is Rip Van Winkle a cast-iron stayer if there is a decent cut in the ground?

Where is the pace going to come from by the way? With Twice Over, Dick Turpin and (presumably?) Rip Van Winkle apparently to be ridden more conservatively than on recent outings, Stimulation looks the only solid pace angle in the race. Watching brief for me.
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Thats the question thats been bugging me - who's going to make the pace? How much of a test of stamina will it be?
One to watch for me and for personal reasons I hope there's no pace and it gives Dick Turpin a shout. The one certainty this season is the form of the 3yo milers Makfi, Canford Cliffs and Dick Turpin unfortunately the race is 1m2f+ good luck with your bets - can't wait for the race.
 
I'm thinking this is the day we see RVW at his best. Not only did it take him a couple of runs last year to be seen at his best, arguably his best performance of last year was over this trip in the eclipse. If he was to run anywhere near that form he would be very hard to beat. Coolmore will also be thinking about the breeding shed for him so it wouldn't surprise me if this race has been the aim all along. Take it as a tip in itself that they only have the one runner in the race.
 
Great to see a bullish opinion!

Hope he runs better than he has. Have backed him and the 2 Godolphin horses each way, and reverse forecasts with Rip and them both.
 
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