Kingman

Slow times dont prove the horse is slow
But fast time can prove the horse is quite good.


Kingman action is a concern and looks a very good prospect but not sure he will prove a guineas horse, Gosden is a good and patient trainer but his récord in the Guineas is not especial.

At the moment War command is the one for me for the 2000 guineas
 
Gosden's record in the Guineas is not special, because he's probably never had a Guineas horse. Raven's Pass would have given Henry and New Approach if they hadn't ridden him like he wouldn't stay.
 
Winners of good races in slow times, especially off a slow pace, must have race-winning pace, which can't be a bad thing. However, that's all it proves. The question that remains to be answered is whether they can produce race-winning pace off a strong gallop.

I like Kingman but I want to see more.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Winners of good races in slow times, especially off a slow pace, must have race-winning pace, which can't be a bad thing. However, that's all it proves. The question that remains to be answered is whether they can produce race-winning pace off a strong gallop.

I like Kingman but I want to see more.
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as Toronado showed in the craven..you can measure against past data whether a horse is very good in a slow run race..its getting the data together that is the hardest bit

i'd say that good comparative sectionals are better than final time speed figures tbh
 
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Good boost for Toormore tomorrow from Outstrip in the Champagne Stakes . Would be wary of backing any Hannon horse at the moment though. They evidently have some sore throats and bad scopes at present and some horses are running very flat Montiridge and Maureen being obvious examples .
 
Appleby seems like a good bloke. Outstrip looks a good prospect, I would fancy him to turn the form round with Toormore if they met again.
 
Aragorn said:
Appleby seems like a good bloke. Outstrip looks a good prospect, I would fancy him to turn the form round with Toormore if they met again.
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I wouldn't - Outstrip looked to know much more what was going on at Goodwood and the penny dropped late for the winner. It will be interesting anyhow.
 
Ardross said:
Certainly wouldn't now - a very impressive and professional performance from Toormore today .
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I agree with that. His Leicester and Goodwood wins have been franked and Sudirman had very good form going into today's race. He's also clearly versatile as far as tactics are concerned. He has solid Guineas claims.
 
Outstrip is pony, and was given the best ride to win a very poor Champagne Stakes . They have done well to get a group 2 out of this horse, he has very little scope.
 
Toormore was impressive agreed. It looks a strong form line now.

Outstrip may not have the most scope but he showed a turn of foot Toormore doesn't possess.
 
Aragorn said:
Toormore was impressive agreed. It looks a strong form line now.

Outstrip may not have the most scope but he showed a turn of foot Toormore doesn't possess.
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Yet !

Good time too - 0.83 inside standard according to the Racing Post.
 
I thought he also produced one yesterday. The horses he beat convincingly aren't mugs, they were quickening too.
 
gus said:
Toormore was ridden for a turn of foot at Goodwood and produced it in spades.
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Yes but they took him to the front yesterday because he only won at goodwood due to Outstrip running out of petrol. He took a couple of lengths out of Toormore when asked. Hughes discussed this on ATR.

Toormore would win over a mile and is definitely the better prospect long term but if they were to meet in the Dewhurst I'd be backing Outstrip; he'll no doubt go off a fair bit bigger than Toormore.
 
Toormore isn't going to run again this season but I am pretty sure he would run Outstrip down again in the Dewhurst .
 
Kingman is on the drift for the Guineas on Betfair which is hardly surprising in view of his setback.

Kingston Hill impressed me yesterday and his performance looks pretty solid both on form and time. Varian's comments in today's Post are fairly positive as far as training him for the Guineas is concerned and I was surprised to see the horse available - to buttons - at three figures on Betfair this morning. In what looks an open year he'd be a decent outsider, for me.
 
Kingston Hill has been supplemented for the Racing Post Trophy on Saturday. Toormore is also among the 5-day decs but I wonder if he'll run - it's been bucketing down all day today round here and the forecast isn't great.
 
Kingston Hill's win yesterday puts him second in the two-year-old colts' rankings on RPR:

Toormore 121/ Kingston Hill 119+/ War Command 118/ No Nay Never 117/ Karakontie 117/ Astaire 116.

Kingman is ranked thirteenth, on 112, a pound behind Australia.
 
Kingman after an operation to remove a chip from a joint, according to Racing Post.
No big deal normally but you would rather not see them.
Are bone chips caused by injury, immaturity, hereditary, a result of diet or a combination of all the above ?
Answers on a postcard please!
 
Very impressive today.
But i will be cautious at the moment,
Has developed phisically very well but the form is nothing special with the 3rd horse making doubts and also reported not booking hard, so likely to be quite fit for a prep.
The newmarket track on good to firm could not be ideal for his one.

I rated him for today 120P.
 
Very impressive today but as suny says Master Carpenter running on into third suggests quite a few , especially Berkshire , ran well below expectations. Night of Thunder also looked to not be striding out quite as he did on soft ground .

Hard to crab the winner though , travelled beautifully and quickened impressively . This is looking like a very good 2000 Guineas .
 
I would envisage TOORMORE is hannons number 1 so KINGMAN has effectively beat hannons second string very easily, so you would have to be impressed.

obrien keeps saying AUSTRALIA is potentially his best ever horse so for KINGMAN to be around the 6/4 mark is a bit short to say the least.

It does look a very good race I would like to see WAR COMMAND run in this I feel he is very smart, but KINGMAN could not have done much more than he did today so he sets the standard on form obviously.

It's a proper race
 
Master Carpenter links War Command to Kingman;)

MC was beaten 5.5L by Anjaal ...who was then beaten 3L by War Command

so MC is 8.5 length inferior to a fully ridden out War Command

Kingman could have won by further yesterday so would have to say War Command has it all to do with Kingman using that really good line of reading;)
 
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