Lockinge

Surely it has to POW at Ascot now.. What is left to prove over a mile.? Excelebration sure to be aimed at RA and will get beat even further , so I see little to gain , the step up to 10f really should happen now, settled beautifullly today. Got the impression from the master that Queen Anne was the target but having seen that today the POW really looks the correct target now..unless of course drops down to 6f to hammer the Aussie handicapper..:lol:
 
uncle goober said:
You have to feel sorry for Excelebration, he should be a champion. As it is he is merely top class.
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Is there not an argument that his association with Frankel means he'll be remembered for longer than the likes of Rock of Gibraltar or Mark of Esteem? Milers of similar ability.
 
I get the feeling it is more likely that the Eclipse will be the first ten furlong venture after a Queen Anne procession.
 
Euronymous said:
Is there not an argument that his association with Frankel means he'll be remembered for longer than the likes of Rock of Gibraltar or Mark of Esteem? Milers of similar ability.
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Speaking of ROG, Frankel just needs two more wins to match his 7 Group 1s in a row.
 
Awesome to watch and he has filled out since last year. He was having a good blow when they led him out of the parade ring so more awesomeness to come I would think.
 
I think if everything goes well
Frankel will run in the Queen Anne, then the International and will finish in the Champion Stakes
 
Maybe it's just me, but I fail to see why everyone's eulogising this particular performance? Yes it was impressive, and yes Excelebration ran well too, but neither achieved a great deal more than they had previously.
Don't forget Dubawi Gold was only ever a makeweight, and was available at 50/1 this morning until his better fancied stablemate was taken out. Little difference in his relative finishing position (apropos the 2 principals) to a couple of occasions last year also, and Bullet Train was exactly as far behind Frankel as he had been at the end of last season
The race time wasn't all that, either; a relative 0.1 sec. slower than that achieved by the 100 rated Palace Moon earlier on the card, so by all means praise Frankel, but do let's try and keep a sense of perspective.
 
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reet hard said:
Maybe it's just me, but I fail to see why everyone's eulogising this particular performance? Yes it was impressive, and yes Excelebration ran well too, but neither achieved a great deal more than they had previously.
Don't forget Dubawi Gold was only ever a makeweight, and was available at 50/1 this morning until his better fancied stablemate was taken out. Little difference in his relative finishing position (apropos the 2 principals) to a couple of occasions last year also, and Bullet Train was exactly as far behind Frankel as he had been at the end of last season
The race time wasn't all that, either; a relative 0.1 sec. slower than that achieved by the 100 rated Palace Moon earlier on the card, so by all means praise Frankel, but do let's try and keep a sense of perspective.
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Always one :(
 
reet hard said:
Maybe it's just me, but I fail to see why everyone's eulogising this particular performance? Yes it was impressive, and yes Excelebration ran well too, but neither achieved a great deal more than they had previously.
Don't forget Dubawi Gold was only ever a makeweight, and was available at 50/1 this morning until his better fancied stablemate was taken out. Little difference in his relative finishing position (apropos the 2 principals) to a couple of occasions last year also, and Bullet Train was exactly as far behind Frankel as he had been at the end of last season
The race time wasn't all that, either; a relative 0.1 sec. slower than that achieved by the 100 rated Palace Moon earlier on the card, so by all means praise Frankel, but do let's try and keep a sense of perspective.
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He extended his margin of superiority over a race-fit Excelebration on his own seasonal debut after an interrupted preparation, under a hands-and-heels ride. Pretty impressive in my book.
 
I sort of agree with reethard in that it would be more interesting if these races were run a bit quicker and lets see what the horse can really do as comparitively to ability when hes won most of his races they havn't been that quick.Maybe on slightly quicker ground this might just happen!!;)
 
This was never meant to be his big day but I was very impressed. He settled very nicely and kicked away from his field in fine style.
 
Grey said:
I want to see Black Caviar and Big Buck's take each other on, they're the two with the record winning sequences after all.

A best of three might be the fairest way to go, an 8f hurdle around a bend, 12f at Newmarket, and finally a coursing-style buckle where they compete, in a confined space and without jockeys, to be the first to trample the next jockey to be suspended for whip abuse .
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Sprinter Sacre wouild stuff hem both LOL
 
sunybay said:
on single form
todays was not in my first 3 figures for him

but he settles and has train on,

lets be prepared for a 145 figure if not better
best horse ever
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Once again Timeform find themselves in a corner with nowhere to run so the bring friggin Bullet Train into the equation to cover their backsides and drop Frankel from 143 to 142.

The truth is that was Frankell's best performance of his life yesterday. He's beaten his main rival at a mile further than last time and he's done it easier and while not fully wound up.

No way on this earth should he have been dropped he should have gone up a couple of points.

The problem is had they put him up to 144 or even 145 that would be laughable due to their own past ratings

Frankel may well be as good at his game as Sea Bird II was at his but the difference was Sea Bird II's win in the Arc against a truly international field of super horses including Preakness winner Tom Rolfe, French Derby (Prix Du Jockey Club) winner Reliance, Prix de Diane winner Blabla, the Russian Derby winner Anilin and the emphatic Irish Derby winner Meadow Court.

He didn't just beat them that day he slaghtered them with ease. Sea Bird II moved with such grace you could hardly notice him change gear. There was no explosive burst like you see with Frankel he was such a good mover it was like he was gliding past them.

The only way Timeofrm can raise Frankel to that magical 145 is if something like Camelot were to hack up in the Derby and then Frankel beat him as easily as he won yesterday.

If that does not happen the Breeder's could be his only chance to meet something that can provide an opportunity but he's unlikely to get a 145 or 146 from Timeform beating Excelebration.
 
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I think Excelebration was not at his best, he posted something like 128 , he is a 133 horse in my figures


the fact Dubawi Gold was a 50/1 in the morning put you in perspective how good the others are.



Frankel didnt need to put a 140 yesterday , but prove he has train on and that he can run 140+ level again.
Also showed a good atittude in the paddock and going to the stalls and is not pulling in the race what is a good sign for the 10f trip.
 
Tanlic said:
Once again Timeform find themselves in a corner with nowhere to run so the bring friggin Bullet Train into the equation to cover their backsides and drop Frankel from 143 to 142.

The truth is that was Frankell's best performance of his life yesterday. He's beaten his main rival at a mile further than last time and he's done it easier and while not fully wound up.

No way on this earth should he have been dropped he should have gone up a couple of points.

The problem is had they put him up to 144 or even 145 that would be laughable due to their own past ratings

Frankel may well be as good at his game as Sea Bird II was at his but the difference was Sea Bird II's win in the Arc against a truly international field of super horses including Preakness winner Tom Rolfe, French Derby (Prix Du Jockey Club) winner Reliance, Prix de Diane winner Blabla, the Russian Derby winner Anilin and the emphatic Irish Derby winner Meadow Court.

He didn't just beat them that day he slaghtered them with ease. Sea Bird II moved with such grace you could hardly notice him change gear. There was no explosive burst like you see with Frankel he was such a good mover it was like he was gliding past them.

The only way Timeofrm can raise Frankel to that magical 145 is if something like Camelot were to hack up in the Derby and then Frankel beat him as easily as he won yesterday.

If that does not happen the Breeder's could be his only chance to meet something that can provide an opportunity but he's unlikely to get a 145 or 146 from Timeform beating Excelebration.
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What I find funny when people quote that arc, the Russian Derby winner is always mentioned as something to prove Sea Bird II's great Arc.

I'd have the 2000 guineas runner up ahead of the Russian Derby winner every year over 10f every year.

I agree with Reethard and Suny Bay for what its worth on Frankel. Nothing has knocked my eye out about Frankel since the 2000 guineas but there is hope that he could do something similar again.
 
Tanlic said:
Once again Timeform find themselves in a corner with nowhere to run so the bring friggin Bullet Train into the equation to cover their backsides and drop Frankel from 143 to 142.

The truth is that was Frankell's best performance of his life yesterday. He's beaten his main rival at a mile further than last time and he's done it easier and while not fully wound up.
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By a mile you mean one length. The Ballydoyle horse seemed to get better with every run last year (the Moulin apart on very soft ground) and it's fair to say given how he trains racehorses that AOB will have this horse at his peak in high summer.
 
using the RP standards the time figure wasn't great ..

Palace Moon OHR 100 carrying 9-7 = 6f - 2.44 slow...3.25 slow per mile

Frankel carrying 9-0 = 2.54 per mile slow

0.71 faster which is about 11lbs..if we say PM was a 103 horse on that run...minus the 7lb extra PM carried gives Frankel a timefigure of about 107

but visually it only looked like an exercise gallop pacewise ...so you wouldn't expect a fast speed figure
 
using OHR's for a form rating

Excelebration rated 126..beaten 5 lengths @ 2.2lb per length = 137
Dubawi Gold rated 117..beaten 9 lengths @ 2.2lb = 137
Bullet Train rated 106..beaten 12 lengths @ 2.2lb = 132

i actually think Bullet Train is a bit better than his 106 as he never gets chance to show it nowadays..he was rated 109 which is fairer imo..which would make Frankel a 135

OHR wise Frankel has run a 137+..as he never got touched with the whip and wasn't out of 2nd gear really
 
Interesting as always, EC1.

It seems like the only way Frankel is going to have the opportunity to post a staggering speedfigure is if something takes on his own pacemaker for the lead. Bullet Train looked fairly happy to set modest fractions for about the first 2f and then wind it up from there. No reason to think they will change tack in the future unless something is determined to take on Bullet Train and make it a fierce test.
 
trackside528 said:
Interesting as always, EC1.

It seems like the only way Frankel is going to have the opportunity to post a staggering speedfigure is if something takes on his own pacemaker for the lead. Bullet Train looked fairly happy to set modest fractions for about the first 2f and then wind it up from there. No reason to think they will change tack in the future unless something is determined to take on Bullet Train and make it a fierce test.
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what we really need is a true front running Group 1 horse..or as you say..someone else's pacemaker leading BT

i didn't really understand the running of Windsor Palace tbh..disputed 3rd..why?
 
I assumed Windsor Palace was going to be used to disrupt Bullet Train and/or Frankel. In the end he did nothing and might as well have not been there. It was little more than a piece of work for Frankel but impressive nevertheless.
 
I think Windsor Palace was there to go on in case Bullet Train didn't. Either that or he just couldn't go fast enough.
 
EC1 said:
i didn't really understand the running of Windsor Palace tbh..disputed 3rd..why?
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Happy with the pace set by Bullet Train; maybe?

For mine, Frankel will swerve the stiff test of the Eclipse, and not step up to 10f until the York International.
 
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