Miling Division 2010

Ardross said:
CC stuffed him at Ascot and anyone with a brain cell would realise that both DT and CC are much improved.
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With respect it is pretty rich questioning other peoples "brain cell" when in the same line you seem to be suggesting Makfi ran to form at Ascot.
 
Agree - does it need to be stated again he was injured?

Canford however has had no such excuses, for both his defeats and underwhelming victories against the mighty duo of hearts of fire and free judgement..
 
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And then of course he cantered all over that well known G3 performer Rip Van Winkle. :rolleyes:. It is an utter fantasy to say he was not fully fit , typical Ballydoyle spin.

Of course Makfi was wrong at Ascot but to suggest he will beat CC now on the basis of early May performances ignores the fact that it is quite common for placed horses to improve past the winner - Ravens Pass and Henrythenavigator being a recent example.

I hope that Makfi comes over for the QEII and am not suggesting that he cannot beat CC - he might have improved a great deal too but I think regarding his 2000 Guineas win and beating Goldikova and Paco Boy in mud when both of them were not suited by it as justifying a description of him as the best miler in Europe is not made out .

CC did not settle at Newmarket and consequently did not finish his race - three races since he has done so and spectacularly. I think he is a machine and will beat Makfi but I accept he might not.
 
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sunybay said:
some points

A. one trained by patient Delzangles, the other 2 by the 2yo specialist.

B. Makfi by Dubawi, the others by Arakan and Tagula

C. Makfi 5 starts , Canford 8 and DT 12.

D. Makfi making debut on October last year and Canfor doing it in mid May and precocious to win in the Royal Ascot meeting



which one has more scope and is more likely to improve?



about the form
Canford last performances for what he has been hailed as the new Miesque is beating Free Judgement at the Curragh, then beating Pat Edderys horse by a length and finally beating a not fully fit Rip Van Wikle.
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A So what - Paco Boy has improved throughout his career

B Paco Boy again by Desert Style not a fashionable sire - yet he has improved to be much the best miler of his age group

C Again so what - some horses take some considerable time to learn how to race - others are much quicker learners - Makfi looked an absolute pro in the Djebel.

D This is simply old-fashioned , fortunately far more horses run earlier at 2 than they used to yet maintain their form at the highest level at 3 .
 
Methinks you dismiss good points too easily. You should be looking at percentages/liklihood rather than dismiss the points because a horse, or even a few, have bucked the trend.
 
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Actual prices...

Paco Boy 11/10
Lope De Vega 11/4
Siyouni 6/1
Fuisse 9/1
Rio De Le Plata 16/1
Via Medici 16/1

Quite like Rio De Plata at these prices but not much point with only two places.
 
When they actually have to turn out against Canford let’s see how big and brave they are then. I would back Canford against any of these at a mile ‘til it hurts and would accommodate anyone who thinks otherwise.
 
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And then of course he cantered all over that well known G3 performer Rip Van Winkle. :rolleyes:. It is an utter fantasy to say he was not fully fit , typical Ballydoyle spin.

i thought in his next race at york rvw stuffed dt who in the 2000 gns had finished ahead of cc as he had also done at newbury

for what is worth i think cc would havea good chance of beating makfi on very fast ground but not on good or easy ground
 
A. one trained by patient Delzangles, the other 2 by the 2yo specialist.
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Thats too much of a silly generalistaion. Could equally say hes trained by the likely champion trainer. And as Adross has said, its hardly as if PB has remained rooted to his 2 year old form is it?

I am certain that Canford cliffs has improved since newmarket
 
I want to see Rip Van Winkle back over a mile and bouncing him out but must be doubts about him now full stop unless he really did not handle the ground today.
 
Dick Turpin was miles below form in the International
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no doubt he was and pulled to hard to say whether he did or didnt stay 10f
the point i was actually making ardross was just as its inconclusive to compare rvw and dick turpin on that form the same is true of canford cliffs and makfi on st james palace form as clearly makfi wasnt right that day

and in my belief they both want opposites in ground conditions so we will either never see a rematch orm the ground will heavily favour one over the other so it will be just as inconclusive
 
I though his ride on the horse in the Queen Anne was bad enough but that was idiotic trying to go up the rail - why did he not just hold him up as usual ?

The Hannon yard are struggling and Hughes rode the horse with much less confidence than usual and paid the price - a car crash ride to be beaten by three plainly inferior animals .

He rode the same bad race on Paco in the race two years ago but then Goldikova was in front .
 
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I'm not actually sure he would have won, he didn't seem to really pick up like he normally does at any stage.

I'm annoyed, backed Fuisse LTO in the Marois and he dicked about today too throwing Pasquier off and going for a run around on two occasions!

Nothing to worry Makfi and Canford there anyway!
 
He has one run and struggles if he is stopped in it and although you might be right that he wasn't quite at his best he did not need to be . He is was miles better than the front three on form.

It was a dreadful ride - the one place you do not want to be at Longchamp in a slow run race is trapped on the rails in third - exactly where he was - disaster could be seen well before the home turn.
 
To be honest in my fury with Hughes what should also be noted was the moronic ride given to Lope de Vega - held up in the rear off a slow pace and pulling . The horse won the Jockey Club for crying out loud.
 
Ardross said:
To be honest in my fury with Hughes what should also be noted was the moronic ride given to Lope de Vega - held up in the rear off a slow pace and pulling . The horse won the Jockey Club for crying out loud.
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I thought this was worse, he won the Jockey Club front-running too! In a race with no obvious pace, Fabre/Guyon want shooting for employing those tactics.

I think RDLP is a reasonable yardstick and he seems to be enjoying the game again, that said, Rip would obviously have battered this mob.
 
How can rdlp be a reasonable yardstick whenb he's seemingly been in and out of love with the game? But its good to see him back. No judgement can, be made on pbs run. He didn't have a run I certainly wouldn't fhancy rvw to bsat " this mob" over seven. That's too short for him now
 
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