Poll: Brexit - Two Years After

Stay or Leave

  • Stay

    Votes: 23 60.5%

  • Leave

    Votes: 15 39.5%
  • Total voters
    38
I've given up on commenting about Corbyn's ineptitude; I've reached a stage where things I think about Brexit just need numbering so I don't have to constantly repeat the whole sentence/paragraph/lecture. I think Corbyn's ineptitude would just be '1'.
 
He should support a peoples vote it's the only way would show he's got any balls ,otherwise he may as well resign now hand over to starmer..
 
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Drone said:
This article from the Graun provides a rather good summary of Corbyn and his ilk

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-on-europe---maybe-it-is-the-lure-of-disaster

'I said stupid people'
'I voted Remain'

hmm...:confused:
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You could write a similar article on the "leavers" in the Conservative side. We are "blessed" with ,IMHO, the poorest and most incompetent load of politicians, on all sides, in my long lifetime.

FWIW, I am no believer in Referendums (that`s partly how we got into this mess) and I think another one would just make matters worse. For better or worse we are where we are and, as usual it will be the poorer and vulnerable members of society who will suffer the most. Twas ever thus.We are well and truly ******….but, never mind despite more and more homeless on our streets, we will have our sovereignty back. Sovreignty my ars*.
 
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Desperate Dan said:
You could write a similar article on the "leavers" in the Conservative side. We are "blessed" with ,IMHO, the poorest and most incompetent load of politicians, on all sides, in my long lifetime.
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Indeed, the political spectrum isn't a linear Right-to-Left but a circle with Far-Right meeting Far-Left after a 360-degree revolution

The UK public are not and never have been predisposed to extreme doctrines: the far-right know it but there'll always be a small irrelevant minority of them mouthing off; the far-left don't realise it, they really should as their vitriol is equally - if differently - vile

Yep, the only thing worse than the current Conservative front bench is the Labour front bench. Pity poor unhappy uneasy Keir Starmer, a giant (relatively speaking) surrounded by dwarves who threw him the hospital pass
 
The reality is though that Corbyn and Mc Donnnells shelf life is limited anyway,both 70 there must be a fair chance corbyn could be gone by the next election anyway..then you look across to the torys and see a dozen leadership candidates all absolutel;y abysmal,every cloud.
 
reet hard said:
Aye - by the EU.but that's hardly new,is it?
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By Parliament, actually, which is finally exercising its supremacy over the Executive. You could almost say it’s taking back control.

Insofar as Brexit is concerned, it’s a bit like Charles Hawtry getting in the ring with Muhammed Ali.

Charles could spend the rest of eternity pointlessly flailing-away, and still never put a mark on Ali; who would simply look bewildered, and wonder what the fu*ck was going on.

I’ll let you consider which is which, and who the aggressor is.
 
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If Johnson argued that white was white and black was black I still wouldn't believe a word that came out of his mouth...
 
The whole thing stems from an injudicious comment David Cameron made to the BBC's James Landale that set off a chain reaction that resulted in Brexit. It's actually one of the best examples of Ray Bradbury's 'Butterfly Effect' I can think off, (although clearly not as good an example as Leopold Lojka taking a wrong turn in Sarajevo 1914)

I'm actually wondering if David Cameron is entitled to be considered the worst Prime Minister in history yet? He's got to be close. Everything the man did was a bloody disaster
 
Do you mean when Cameron mentioned that he wouldn’t be standing for a third term, Warbler? That fired the starting gun to a leadership challenge, and set Johnson and Gove instinctively against Cameron on the referendum.
 
Yes absolutely that was the butterfly moment

Here's the thing. Leave would have lost were in not for Boris Johnson. The big question really is was Boris an out-an-out Brexiteer or an opportunist who realised there'd be a leadership battle in 2017/18?

Look at his Brexit credentials first. For such time as he was Mayor of London he's on the record as having made plenty of pro-European speeches and talking points. Let's not forget that it took him a week to make up his mind who to campaign for. Can you seriously imagine the likes of Gove, IDS, Fox et al having to sit down and think which side to support. Any Brexiteers I know has pretty well known which side of the argument they're on years ago.

The calculation as Boris saw it lies in the mechanism that the Tories use to elect their leader. If Remain had won the referendum then George Osborne was going to be the continuity Cameron candidate having presided over the so-called economic recovery and introduction of austerity. Osborne would win the parliamentary party nomination, but needn't be guaranteed to win the final vote amongst the party membership. Conversely Boris faced the opposite problem. He could conceivably win a poll amongst party members but needn't be guaranteed to come through the parliamentary filtering system where he doesn't enjoy anything like the same level of support.

Basically Boris was going to fall about 80 votes short in Westminster so needed to find a constituency within the party who could propel him into second place so that he could beat Theresa May and then take on George Osborne on much more favourable terms. Naturally he figures that is he gallantly campaigns for 'leave' and puts up a good showing in 2016 but narrowly loses, then in 2017/18 he can turn round and hopefully convert that into about 120 - 130 votes when the leadership election starts. Enough for second place

The problem of course is that Boris c0cks the whole thing up and wins. At this point he isn't too concerned however as Cameron resigns and he thinks his chance comes early. He hadn't however reckoned on Gove, who knew what he was about all along, and now that he'd served his purpose and was therefore expendable, Gove duly slipped the knife in

Boris Johnson is now left having to live a lie and adopt a new political position or otherwise face mass ridicule. It's a little bit like the 'Twelfth Night' in places

Now this was hinted at in the Brexit debate, principally by Nicola Sturgeon, but she never took the opportunity in any of the debates to explain it to the British people and expose Johnson for what he was doing by laying out the rules which Johnson was trying to worm his way through. Instead she just relied on a soundbite and trusted the people to put the pieces together

This all stems from Calamity Cameron. If he hadn't been so stupid as to say "on your marks, get ready" then Brexit wouldn't have happened. It was perhaps telling that as he slid his oily way out of Downing Street he was asked what his greatest achievement was after 7 years, and he nominated 'gay marriage'. I suppose it's really a question of what else could he say? The Big Society? (remember that?) Libya? Failing to hit his immigration targets? Failing to hit his environmental targets? Taking us into a double-dip recession? The only thing he didn't do that badly was a passable impression of Julia Gillard
 
If you let me stay
I'll say what I should've said
If you let me stay
I should have said that I love you
It you let me stay
And I should have said it from my heart
If you let me stay


I'm with Terence on this. Stay.
 
ozgood said:
Zigga zagga zigga zagga out out out.. 59 more filth.. Nicked in yorkshire... Wake up
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Presumably from the little-known continent of Asia-Europe?

FFS, ozgood. Surely even you can see that this has fu*ck-all to do with the EU, and that Brexit will do precisely fu*ck-all to control the immigration you would really like to see stopped?

Jesus fu*cking Christ.
 
Warbler said:
Yes absolutely that was the butterfly moment

Here's the thing. Leave would have lost were in not for Boris Johnson. The big question really is was Boris an out-an-out Brexiteer or an opportunist who realised there'd be a leadership battle in 2017/18?

Look at his Brexit credentials first. For such time as he was Mayor of London he's on the record as having made plenty of pro-European speeches and talking points. Let's not forget that it took him a week to make up his mind who to campaign for. Can you seriously imagine the likes of Gove, IDS, Fox et al having to sit down and think which side to support. Any Brexiteers I know has pretty well known which side of the argument they're on years ago.

The calculation as Boris saw it lies in the mechanism that the Tories use to elect their leader. If Remain had won the referendum then George Osborne was going to be the continuity Cameron candidate having presided over the so-called economic recovery and introduction of austerity. Osborne would win the parliamentary party nomination, but needn't be guaranteed to win the final vote amongst the party membership. Conversely Boris faced the opposite problem. He could conceivably win a poll amongst party members but needn't be guaranteed to come through the parliamentary filtering system where he doesn't enjoy anything like the same level of support.

Basically Boris was going to fall about 80 votes short in Westminster so needed to find a constituency within the party who could propel him into second place so that he could beat Theresa May and then take on George Osborne on much more favourable terms. Naturally he figures that is he gallantly campaigns for 'leave' and puts up a good showing in 2016 but narrowly loses, then in 2017/18 he can turn round and hopefully convert that into about 120 - 130 votes when the leadership election starts. Enough for second place

The problem of course is that Boris c0cks the whole thing up and wins. At this point he isn't too concerned however as Cameron resigns and he thinks his chance comes early. He hadn't however reckoned on Gove, who knew what he was about all along, and now that he'd served his purpose and was therefore expendable, Gove duly slipped the knife in

Boris Johnson is now left having to live a lie and adopt a new political position or otherwise face mass ridicule. It's a little bit like the 'Twelfth Night' in places

Now this was hinted at in the Brexit debate, principally by Nicola Sturgeon, but she never took the opportunity in any of the debates to explain it to the British people and expose Johnson for what he was doing by laying out the rules which Johnson was trying to worm his way through. Instead she just relied on a soundbite and trusted the people to put the pieces together

This all stems from Calamity Cameron. If he hadn't been so stupid as to say "on your marks, get ready" then Brexit wouldn't have happened. It was perhaps telling that as he slid his oily way out of Downing Street he was asked what his greatest achievement was after 7 years, and he nominated 'gay marriage'. I suppose it's really a question of what else could he say? The Big Society? (remember that?) Libya? Failing to hit his immigration targets? Failing to hit his environmental targets? Taking us into a double-dip recession? The only thing he didn't do that badly was a passable impression of Julia Gillard
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I like your analysis, Warbler. The only bit where I would disagree is with Gove. He’s as bad as Johnson, and made his leave or stay decision very late in the day - knifing his mate Cameron in the process - and is a total unprincipled *******. He clearly disliked Johnson more than his mate Cameron.
 
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