Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe
- Thread starter JamesRB
- Start date
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
4 Oaks a King George and an Arc without breaking sweat with an Eclipse and Juddmonte winner made to look like a tree.
Frankie is taking her up as one of the best he's ridden but!!!!! Hard to say how serious he is as shed talk is the flavour of the year these days
129 may be fair but it's not generous
Frankie is taking her up as one of the best he's ridden but!!!!! Hard to say how serious he is as shed talk is the flavour of the year these days
129 may be fair but it's not generous
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edgt
Senior Jockey
She is definitely the most straight forward Sunybay.
Her rating will make sense when she is ever beaten, I imagine she more in the locker Sunday so you add a "p" to any rating she earned.
Her rating will make sense when she is ever beaten, I imagine she more in the locker Sunday so you add a "p" to any rating she earned.
Or win none and also be rated 140.
Consistent horse yes straightorward yes, very good yes.
Great uh no!
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
What!!!!!!!!!!. You can't seriously think Battaash is a better horse than her?. Marsha never raised a gallop on the ground which flattered him no end.
She has won everything put in front of her without turning a hair no matter the ground. Her total earnings £3,807,889
Battaash is likely to boil over at anytime , needs soft to be at his best, has run in only 2 group 1's one of which he was beaten in. His total earnings £410,458
He may have a slightly higher rating but that means nothing it's like trying to compare Istabraq to Arkle
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Enable given 134 by Timeform. Apparently they have Ulysees running just a pound below his Juddmonte effort (which is wrong surely, RPR have him 3lbs below that mark)
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
I gave up with you long time ago,
your knowledge of handicapping horse racing should improve quite a lot to start debating with me.
Yeah you gave her 120 I said 133 and Timeform gave her 134...I will let others be the judge of your handicapping abilities
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
What do they know..they're a pound wrong :lol:
What did you rate those three at their best?
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Her sex allowance is included in her rating. They are basically saying she'd dead heat with Peintre Celebre. STS was another 3lbs superior to him (though not over 12f)
Frankel still well clear.
Frankel still well clear.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
They've said this: [FONT="]. Her performance was every bit as striking as Treve’s first success as a three-year-old in 2013, and she is now Timeform rated 134 from 130p. [/FONT]Cloth of Stars[FONT="] (132 from 125) ran a massive career best to chase Enable home, having to pick his way through but unable to land any sort of blow on the winner once he got into the clear, while [/FONT]Ulysses[FONT="] – behind Enable in the King George earlier in the season – ran to his top-class best once again in third (remains rated 130)
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Euronymous
Senior Jockey
I cannot have Ulysees running to his best. I'd have him on 128 for his Juddmonte - 126 for Sunday. Which puts Enable on 130.
I wanted to say this few days ago on the Chasers/Hurdlers thread before knowing what TF will rate the Arc, but clearly they're doing this to spark comments on their ratings on the principle any publicity is good publicity. I think this has already backfired. RIP Timeform.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
I think they've said in the past that they won't go below a certain figure for certain races, like the feat of winning for example a Derby is worth a base figure no matter the form.
Some poor Derby's in the past had to have been below 120 but they'll never go that low. And this goes all the way back to Arkle - they justify that rating by saying he was capable of conceding the full range of weight to horses of or near Gold Cup quality - but what if Stalbridge Colonist, What a Myth et al were fortunate in that post Arkle those Gold Cups were absolute rubbish. We see dips in quality of certain races now, with a huge racehorse population. The likelihood of bad years would have been even more likely back then with fewer horses.
Some poor Derby's in the past had to have been below 120 but they'll never go that low. And this goes all the way back to Arkle - they justify that rating by saying he was capable of conceding the full range of weight to horses of or near Gold Cup quality - but what if Stalbridge Colonist, What a Myth et al were fortunate in that post Arkle those Gold Cups were absolute rubbish. We see dips in quality of certain races now, with a huge racehorse population. The likelihood of bad years would have been even more likely back then with fewer horses.
I dont do ratings so couldn't quote figures of my own but as much as I love Zarkava, surely Treve's first Arc was at least as good based on what she beat and how she beat it on the day?
edgt
Senior Jockey
Danedream possibly rated too high; was not the runner up a 66/1 pacemaker ?
Her subsequent King George win hardly justified that rating.
Enable is better than her Sunday rating and I hope she stays in training as she has the size, scope and temperament for the job.
I was worried at her parade ring enthusiasm at York but that proved well unfounded.
Credit to her and her connections for not over training and keeping her form which cannot be measured accurately enough in figures.
She looks the part, has acted the part and has improved through the season; remember just a few months ago we thought J Gosden had a better filly
in the yard.
Her subsequent King George win hardly justified that rating.
Enable is better than her Sunday rating and I hope she stays in training as she has the size, scope and temperament for the job.
I was worried at her parade ring enthusiasm at York but that proved well unfounded.
Credit to her and her connections for not over training and keeping her form which cannot be measured accurately enough in figures.
She looks the part, has acted the part and has improved through the season; remember just a few months ago we thought J Gosden had a better filly
in the yard.
simmo
Senior Jockey
2nd Shareta subsequent winner of the Vermeille and Yorkshire Oaks
3rd Snow Fairy - Oaks, Irish Oaks and subsequently Irish Champion Stakes
4th So You Think - multiple G1 winner.