Sprinting Division

sunybay said:
that race in Italy is the best sprinting nce I have seen by a long way
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I see your point, on a line through Black Mambazo, he's entitled to be amongst the front runners of the 5f division but it was still two years ago. I'd want to see something similar between now and the Abbaye to get involved on Arc weekend at low prices.

If I had to price the race up now, I'd have him in at around 8s.
 
not Black Mambazo, check all the beaten horses what did before and fater the race.

That was a freak performance
 
It was still two years ago! He's beaten trees since returning from injury.

I hope he is the freak he's made out to be, I really do but I'd need to see something better until he's a betting proposition. Be interesting to see what turns up in Germany against him.
 
Hamm said:
Not sure there was too much wrong with that race - the favourite was always going to struggle over 5, and the next 2 bombed out, which can happen.
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I think you've just explained what was wrong with the race. On top of that, three of the first five home came in to the race rated 106 or less. Another rated 111. The race has only barely been meeting the quality criteria for Group 1s as it is.
 
You had the 2 best Sprinters of the season present. They just weren't good enough today. A double winner of the race and a highly fancies double Group 1 winner. They collectively didn't perform - that is not the race's fault!

It happens that you have results that don't fit in with ratings, analysis or any rational kind of approach - animals not machines!
 
1st, 3rd and 5th places went to the 3 year olds.

Their prominence lends a certain comfort to the result. Rather than being a case of outsiders unaccountably reversing previous form against their betters, it's a younger generation coming through. I think the form is probably ok, the only reservation being that Murtagh had a very slow start and had a lot of ground to make up.

Re Overdose, Hamm, I suggest that as well as the Italy race you have a look again at what he did that day at Longchamp in the void race. That said, I agree with those who want to see a bit more evidence of his current well-being before getting excited about his chances in this year's Abbaye. I hope his next outing, at Baden Baden, will tell us more.
 
What happened at Longchamp wasn't even a race!

He may well (we saw today all horses have a chance, especially in sprints) win, but anyone betting on that because of a 'race' which never happened is only one step from going mad, imo.

And, before anyone says it was a quicker time, that is irrelevant. Does that mean any horse who does a quicker time over the same course and distance than another horse is better? Of course not, that is nonsense. Sure why don't we hand time them down the gallops and lets just say the quickest horse is the best?!

If he had actually been in a race, and had horse who challenged him, who knows what would have happened.
 
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Just because it wasn't an official race doesn't mean at least half the field weren't racing. And nothing could lay a hand on him..
 
Barely more relevant than a gallop for me.

If he is so great, why does he only run in egg and spoon races, 1 race aside?
 
Galileo said:
Because he is owned by a foreign trainer and owner...but before injury he was in the UK to take in Royal Ascot and the rest wasn't he?
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Yes, he was actually injured whilst here I think. They were looking to run him in the Temple before Ascot if I remember rightly.
 
Hamm said:
What happened at Longchamp wasn't even a race!

He may well (we saw today all horses have a chance, especially in sprints) win, but anyone betting on that because of a 'race' which never happened is only one step from going mad, imo.

And, before anyone says it was a quicker time, that is irrelevant. Does that mean any horse who does a quicker time over the same course and distance than another horse is better? Of course not, that is nonsense. Sure why don't we hand time them down the gallops and lets just say the quickest horse is the best?!

If he had actually been in a race, and had horse who challenged him, who knows what would have happened.
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Agree with you about the horse's chances this year but completely disagree with all of this.

He went full pelt for five furlongs and had a couple follow him and his jockey rode him as if he was in the race.

If he wasn't up to being Group One class, he wouldn't have got within half a second of the re-run Abbaye. The time is very relevant, the race was run on the same afternoon, in the same ground, in the same conditions over the same distance. If it was run on a different day or conditions, I'd agree with you.

However, as I've said, he still has an enormous amount to prove he's still in the same form as two years ago.
 
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Of course it suffered.

Equiano ran, and there are always things that happen in running (not that we even know it is an injury yet). Same with Kingsgate Native. The Champion Sprinter was also there.

A shock does not mean the race should be demoted from Group 1 standard. Sometimes you have shock results.
 
Gamla Stan said:
Agree with you about the horse's chances this year but completely disagree with all of this.

He went full pelt for five furlongs and had a couple follow him and his jockey rode him as if he was in the race.

If he wasn't up to being Group One class, he wouldn't have got within half a second of the re-run Abbaye. The time is very relevant, the race was run on the same afternoon, in the same ground, in the same conditions over the same distance. If it was run on a different day or conditions, I'd agree with you.

However, as I've said, he still has an enormous amount to prove he's still in the same form as two years ago.
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If that's the case, can't we just run every horse at full pelt up and down Newmarket heath and say the fastest is the best?

He clearly would have gone well, but anyone saying he would have won, just because his time was faster, is stone mad. That split screen for example is hilarious - people actually believe it!
 
It was run in race conditions though where a good number of the field treated it as a race and didn't have a clue what was going on behind them.
 
If that's the case, can't we just run every horse at full pelt up and down Newmarket heath and say the fastest is the best?
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Erm, what are the two racecourses on Newmarket heath about then?
 
You don't seem to understand ... why don't we run all the two year olds in the UK in maidens (groups of 3/4 like Overdose's 'race') and time them, and then the fastest is the best - end of story - why bother racing them against each other if we can do it that way?!
 
Overdose was racing though (including against a previous Abbaye winner who he beat comfortably) and he covered the five furlongs quicker than Marchand D'Or did on the same afternoon.

That fact marked him out as a Group horse two years ago as horses simply don't run five furlongs faster than 55 seconds if they're not top class sprinters.

Even the void Abbaye aside, as I've said, on a line through Black Mambazo, he was also a genuine group performer two years ago.
 
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Barely more relevant than a gallop for me.

If he is so great, why does he only run in egg and spoon races, 1 race aside?

one hell of a gallop then - wonder what he can do when he actually races ;)

i think you will find Hamm that as with 100 metre sprinters..that the time is very relevant..they don't tend to do much tactical racing at this trip

if we had a 100 metre sprinter who ran a world record time in some back water..you would just dismiss it?..you wouldn't think that sprinter might be pretty good?

the horses that ran with him in that "race" couldn't get near him..he was awesome

like it or not..time is quite relevant..just because you dismiss it out of hand won't make it not so.

you tell me i talk rubbish..well...you done your share on this thread i'm afraid
 
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