The Debate

I'm really rather ignorant of what the main differences are between the Big Three - when I used to vote LibDem, years ago, there was much more of a distinction between all three policies

Well, there really isnt all that much at all. on the face of it, Camerons tories are relatively leftish and Browns labour still fairly right. Lib dems where they usually are. when you look at the differences in policies, they are quite marginal. 1984 is definately is not

Thats not a bad thing though

As for the polls, read yesterday that the final result has habitually matched labours lowest poll rating
 
I missed the first debate, because I thought it would be all about grandstanding, and there's enough of that as it is. Anybody have any thoughts about the last one? I still couldn't see the gaps between them, though - I think you're right, clivex, it's definitely not as dramatic as past times.

I suppose it's all due to the rise and rise of the middle classes, or even a relatively affluent 'working class' (sorry, I don't like these definitions, but what else can we use, other than C1s or D2s or whatever they are)? There's less to 'fight for the right' for thanks to Health & Safety ensuring safer, cleaner and better working conditions, and various EU edicts on what constitutes a breach of this or that. I can't see mass hunger, with half the population now weighing in at 50 stone apiece, although I'm sure there is poverty of a sort. Not along the lines of the Mumbai rag-pickers, though no doubt some of those who are seriously poor may be arrivals from very third-rate countries, here to hope to make a buck and improve their lot.

Overall, what can one appeal to, apart from the ages-old stuff about Laura Norder, education and health? The recession's thrown a spanner in the works, but I can't see any truly dramatic difference between handling it. All three will be hiding some sort of gremlin up their sleeves in case it worsens, for sure. Nobody can ever be 'utterly truthful' in that they're not soothsayers and don't know what the global situation will be in two, three, or even five years' time. So any stuff about putting their cards on the table is subject to upward or downward revision in the light of global recovery or further depression.
 
On th economic arguments Krizon, which was what the last debate was geared towards, there was nothing between them at all really. The general increases in prosperity is one thing but what it really illustrates is the near enough complete defeat of the failed hard left world view and a continuing distaste for the nationlistic right and the lack of enthusiasm for cold eyed monetarism

Ultimately we are traditionally a pragmatic nation of traders with an individualistic streak and a fairly tolerant world view.
 
I think the failed hard left (did we really have one?) in this country died on the vine of an increasing number of people taking up higher education, from the old Workers' Education Association (which I used in the 60s!) through to the universitication (I made that up) of what were humble tech colleges (went to one of those, too), so that almost anyone who can make 2 and 2 equal 4 can say they've gone to uni. Surely such educational aspiration made a middle class spring up, like mushrooms overnight, where once before a tech college implied 'vocational' (or academically inferior, which I know I was), suited to the working classes?

I hope there's enough distaste for the neo-Nazis to the point that our fairly tolerant world view doesn't include too much tolerance for this little boil to become a plague.

Overall, I agree with your summation of this little isle, though. We're not given to wild extremism, even when some of it gets imported (legally or not). We seem to manage to dilute the more rabid views with a mixture of indifference and satire. Surely there can be little worse to a foaming hatemonger than to have most people giggling about how deranged he (or she) appears and to find that, far from whipping up tens of thousands into a shrieking, anarchic crowd, the end result is a well-aimed egg?
 
I think it is interesting that the Tory vote , if the polls are correct is so low considering the unpopularity of the current government.

I assume that there is a mixture of reasons- that Cameron is the sugar coat on the nasty party ( which is still undoubtedly there ) , that the Tories are almost as associated with the expenses scandal as Labour and because for all Brown's faults Cameron and Osborne have been so wrong on the economy since the financial crisis began.
 
The Tories are inextricably associated with Maggie Thatcher and her decimation of mining communities and the unforgivable selling-off of Council housing stock, and their refusal to allow Councils to reinvest the take from that into further 'social' housing.

There are millions of square feet of refurbishable office blocks lying empty around Brighton, where there is a housing shortage (as there is all over the UK) for young people and small families. These could easily be knocked into very nice apartments, with communal gardens and car-parking space as well. But, while I'd love to say the Council is Tory and that not taking such a proactive approach is down to them, we are in fact Labour, so there's no excuse for them not picking up that baton and redressing the previous party's wrongs. They have had 13 years in which to at least get housing right, but, having failed to provide the nation with a secure and competent Home Office, having given us an NHS which has spent well over £2bn on a computer system which is still not working efficiently and may well be scrapped, after continuing to allow commuters to be held to ransom by ever-increasing capitalist rail companies while at the same time battering the motorist with shite roads and higher taxes on vehicles and fuel... it's no wonder that these buildings, all over the country, languish into decrepitude and decay, instead of being revived. We don't need NEW houses on green belt sites, Mr Brown - no doubt some sort of spiteful poke in the eye to what Labour considers the well-heeled county set, in a pathetic retro-working class move - we already have the buildings close to schools, shops, hospitals, and with existing utilities and roadworks. We just need them taken away from absentee owners and made good for the existing need.
 
I find amazing that Cameron has not the election won right now,
it is time for someone with some level to rule a country like Great Britain.
 
I find amazing that Cameron has not the election won right now,
it is time for someone with some level to rule a country like Great Britain.

Well you were pretty amazed when Mr Zapatero won too if I remember rightly.:D
 
yes
Zapatero is much worse than any of your three

I am amazed we are not in the same postition of Greece after having this Allende for 6 years here.
 
The Tories are inextricably associated with Maggie Thatcher and her decimation of mining communities and the unforgivable selling-off of Council housing stock, and their refusal to allow Councils to reinvest the take from that into further 'social' housing.

There are millions of square feet of refurbishable office blocks lying empty around Brighton, where there is a housing shortage (as there is all over the UK) for young people and small families. These could easily be knocked into very nice apartments, with communal gardens and car-parking space as well. But, while I'd love to say the Council is Tory and that not taking such a proactive approach is down to them, we are in fact Labour, so there's no excuse for them not picking up that baton and redressing the previous party's wrongs. They have had 13 years in which to at least get housing right, but, having failed to provide the nation with a secure and competent Home Office, having given us an NHS which has spent well over £2bn on a computer system which is still not working efficiently and may well be scrapped, after continuing to allow commuters to be held to ransom by ever-increasing capitalist rail companies while at the same time battering the motorist with shite roads and higher taxes on vehicles and fuel... it's no wonder that these buildings, all over the country, languish into decrepitude and decay, instead of being revived. We don't need NEW houses on green belt sites, Mr Brown - no doubt some sort of spiteful poke in the eye to what Labour considers the well-heeled county set, in a pathetic retro-working class move - we already have the buildings close to schools, shops, hospitals, and with existing utilities and roadworks. We just need them taken away from absentee owners and made good for the existing need.
Yes, it's frightening to think just how much worse it would have been under the tories.

There's obviously mixed experiences all over the country. Up here, I can't think of a single school that hasn't been either entirely rebuilt or refurbished in the last 15 years. The school in which I work has a Smartboard and at least one networked computer in every room, plus 4 IT suites.

There have been four hospitals built (that I can think of) in Central Scotland alone, plus they took over the failing private hospital in Clydebank.

In the 14 years I've lived in my town, the health centre has undergone a lot of modernisation and improvements in systems. There are more doctors now. I used to wait the best part of an hour in a busy waiting room, even under the appointments system. Now, there's seldom any more than three or four people waiting and I'm usually seen within less than half an hour of the appointment time, and that's because the docs take time to discuss your health with you.

When I was ill at Christmas, a phone call to NHS24 got me into hospital within an hour.

I just can't imagine any of that happening under any other government.
 
:lol:
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I think the more exposure Cameron gets the worse he comes across.

yes he is quite fake - its like he has been on a shite leadership course - ok..you take your coat off first..it looks like you mean business then

i think tories will get a majority unfortunately..the polls aren't reflective re hung parliament because i do think many people have been undecided until the day

a few months ago i believed a landslide was possible..that looks unlikely now but i still don't see it being a hung parliament..although some of do want hanging :D
 
I think the greed 'n' sleaze scandal dented both the Cons and the Labs so that most people couldn't see the join, EC1. I've gone with LibDem because I don't feel an affinity to either of those two, never have, and while no party or charter will ever be ideal for everyone, it's the nearest to what I'd prefer to see in.
 
I didn't take my place at the polling booth on account of not having the option of voting for a Sinn Fein candidate due to my location.
 
I think the greed 'n' sleaze scandal dented both the Cons and the Labs so that most people couldn't see the join, EC1. I've gone with LibDem because I don't feel an affinity to either of those two, never have, and while no party or charter will ever be ideal for everyone, it's the nearest to what I'd prefer to see in.


I live in Chesterfield..had voted labour all my life..which was great whilst we had Tony Benn. When he stood down they tried to bring in a Blair clone..even the local party didn't want him...so I voted Lib Dem for first time ever..lo and behold we got Paul Holmes in..its the first time in my life i got some pleasure from voting.

In the past we used to have majority of 26000 for labour here..they blew it big time. They haven't learned from that..the new labour candidate is another self proclaimed blair boy...so again have voted lib dem..hope Holmes gets in a again..think he will.
 
which was great whilst we had Tony Benn

and glad you kept him there....

we would be living in caves now if he had gained power

I am not too keen on the idea of a Tory overall majority but a hung parliament with the consequent demands for electoral reform (which has to happen admittedly) with the general muddle, is a concern in current enviroment. i sense that will be on voters minds and will drive up the tory vote. The chancellors role is critical now and losing Darling is not desirable... i think. Having said that my local vote was for vincent
 
and glad you kept him there....

we would be living in caves now if he had gained power

I am not too keen on the idea of a Tory overall majority but a hung parliament with the consequent demands for electoral reform (which has to happen admittedly) with the general muddle, is a concern in current enviroment. i sense that will be on voters minds and will drive up the tory vote. The chancellors role is critical now and losing Darling is not desirable... i think. Having said that my local vote was for vincent


he was a good MP for the people though Clive..there aren't many people here that have a bad word for him thats for sure..a proper MP

Dennis Skinner isn't that far from here either..another proper MP

not many about these days..just cardboard cut out types who tow the line
 
Looks like a minority Conservative Gov?

Sky news/BBC/ITV exit poll give Con - 307 Lab - 255 Lib - 59 Other - 29
 
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