The Domination of Mullins & Co

Ardross said:
.......Though JP must wonder with all his funds how come Ricci seems to be able to buy all the best horses )......
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The answer to that is quite simple, Ardross.

Ricci doesn't have dollops like Frank Berry buying them, or Jonjo training them.
 
Since when did Frank berry buy anything other than Toilet paper for JP?

Would that be the same Jonjo who won the Grand National and the Gold Cup for JP?

Yer right yer still spouting shyte after all these years:lol:
 
I think 172 is fair for Binocular - when he was right he was dazzlingly talented . The problem was he often wasn't quite right as shown by his jumping errors . The day he won the Champion Hurdle he was a very good horse deserving 172 .
 
Binocular beat Kyber Kim 3 lengths..KK was rated 169 on that run..which was the highest rating he ever achieved..he was down to 164 within 2 runs..i'd think Binocular is fairish at 172

i'd say Kybher Kim wasn't far off what AF is ratings wise..AF was 15 behind Faugheen..and F with RP comment..easily.. to allow for the fact that Ruby nearly did gymnastics on his back after the last looking for any other challengers
 
Mullins isn't the only Irish stable going well this season.

Gordon Elliott has won about €2.1m so far in Ireland and the UK, which is well ahead of leading UK trainer Paul Nicholls, whose current total comes to around €1.6m when converted to euros.

And Henry De Bromhead would just about slot into fifth place, behind Nicholls and Philip Hobbs, in a joint UK/Irish trainers table.
 
Khyber Kim was raised 10lbs for finishing second to Binocular, and three races later, he'd been dropped 10lbs.

Go figure.
 
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Euronymous said:
169 for that horse is ridiculous. That sort of mark is Hardy Eustace/Brave Inca ball park area.
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the next 6 home in that CH were all in the 160's...i don't really give a fig what binocular was rated tbh...and i don't just cherry pick horses i like or don't like to give bad or good ratings to..was just stating what he was rated after the race..the official handicapper will have given him that figure based on the next 2 or 3 home..maybe the race bottomed him..we don't know..just because he drops back down doesn't mean on the day he didn't run to it.,,,he wouldn't be the first horse that ran his best ever race in a CH would he?

Binocular to me is around the 171/172 markish based on his career as a whole ..he certainly isn't the worst CH winner that is for sure..on other hand..he isn't the best either obviously
 
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If a horse is a 159 horse going into a race, and then a 159 horse again within three races after it (beaten all three times), then it has to be questionable whether he ever ran to 169 in that single, anomalous race in between. I agree that most horses will run to their best in a CH, but they tend not to run 10lbs better than anything they've ever done before or since.

Binocular for me was high-160's at best. Certainly that CH effort in no way merited a 170+ rating, which should be reserved for exceptional performances only, and beating the rags he did, wasn't anything remotely like an exceptional performance. It was clearly very good - like a lot of his performances were when he was on a going day - but that Champion Hurdle and his best form generally, was never exceptional.
 
Grasshopper said:
If a horse is a 159 horse going into a race, and then a 159 horse again within three races after it (beaten all three times), then it has to be questionable whether he ever ran to 169 in that single, anomalous race in between. I agree that most horses will run to their best in a CH, but they tend not to run 10lbs better than anything they've ever done before or since.

Binocular for me was high-160's at best. Certainly that CH effort in no way merited a 170+ rating, which should be reserved for exceptional performances only, and beating the rags he did, wasn't anything remotely like an exceptional performance. It was clearly very good - like a lot of his performances were when he was on a going day - but that Champion Hurdle and his best form generally, was never exceptional.
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i've never said Binocular was exceptional
 
Not saying you did explicitly, EC1........but if you think he is 170+, then (by my scale) you are effectively saying he was exceptional........which is what I have the issue with.

I think Binocular was slightly better than Brave Inca/Hardy Eustace.....probably as good as Rock on Ruby.......but a good bit short of what Faugheen and Hurricane Fly were capable of.
 
Which sums up all of our discussions/arguments about ratings nicely.

None of us work to the same scale as each other, the OH, Timeform, Raceform or my Grannie's hatpin, so we are never really comparing apples-with-apples.
 
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all my work is based initially from the OHR Grass..thats the base...170/172 to me is what i expect a reasonable winner of the CH to achieve on my calcs..if a CH winner is less than 167 i'd be calling it below par..above 173 above par
 
granger said:
Can't see tables right now, but Jessie Harrington is having a great season and has some really lovely horses for the future
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Jessie H has indeed introduced some very nice new horses and she's 4th in the Irish table. But she's only got around half the prize money that HdB has won and wouldn't be far inside the top 20 of a UK/Irish joint table.You'd imagine that with a bit of luck these good bumper horses of hers will give her an even better season next year.
 
Grey said:
Jessie H has indeed introduced some very nice new horses and she's 4th in the Irish table. But she's only got around half the prize money that HdB has won and wouldn't be far inside the top 20 of a UK/Irish joint table.You'd imagine that with a bit of luck these good bumper horses of hers will give her an even better season next year.
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Yep - Milan geldings are particularly good in her care

Don't think GIGI have ever sent her a horse?

She has some nice hurdlers this season too

Hopefully they all stay sound

Brian Kearney of Moscow Flyer fame has a horse with her as part of a syndicate too - name escapes me
 
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