The election 2015

clivex said:
there is some rubbish in banks but a lot of very smart too. If you don't cut it you don't have aslef protecting you
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But you do have the national treasuries of countries to protect you when you make a balls-up of things.
Gamble billions on a wrong call, and the unfortunate Joe Public will bail you out .............. because you're "too big to fail".
 
icebreaker said:
The kind of smarts -- genius types --who brought the world to financial meltdown in 2008 with their machinations?
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Pointless comment. The vast majority of finance staff had absolutely nothing to do with credit default swaps. Say 99%!plus?

there are loads of very smart people eRning fortunes for this exonomy in any other area of the bank you care to mention. Far more per head than any other sector.
 
icebreaker said:
But you do have the national treasuries of countries to protect you when you make a balls-up of things.
Gamble billions on a wrong call, and the unfortunate Joe Public will bail you out .............. because you're "too big to fail".
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With the cost being recovered. Of course in a perfect world the banks should have failed but it was not possible. No one should defend the Scottish banks and others who's screwed it up. But ultimately it moves on and we are still a world leader and generating huge business

I'm no defender of the lack of controls that led to the abuse but as bad as the meltdown was, the industry pays its way in the medium and longer term. Without it the uk would be much much poorer

the difference is that the bail out was of industries which will and do make money. And will do for as long as we are around. Unfortunately for others, mining and ultimately when driverless trains come on stream, otwhe industries can only take but will ultimately be obsolete

its simple

any leader that wants to bash the banks will drive business away and hammer tax revenue

any leader that wants to protect overpaid subsidised industries will have to raise taxes (or fares in the case of tube drivers)

whats gone is gone. We are where we are and that is the fact of the matter
 
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clivex said:
the industry pays its way in the medium and longer term.
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Go tell it to the Greeks.
Those unfortunate people have been compelled to indenture their future into a veritable bondage for generations to come in order to reimburse the banking casino-gambling mob their losses.

I'm sorry mate, but Jeez, I hate these f***ing banskters with a vengeance. The international banking industry is nothing but a loansharking conglomerate 's'far as I can see.
 
icebreaker said:
Go tell it to the Greeks.
Those unfortunate people have been compelled to indenture their future into a veritable bondage for generations to come in order to reimburse the banking casino-gambling mob their losses.

I'm sorry mate, but Jeez, I hate these f***ing banskters with a vengeance. The international banking industry is nothing but a loansharking conglomerate 's'far as I can see.
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That's too awful ice

you really believe that the Greeks have no responsibility for their own borrowing? I've seen this stuff and it's ubelievable that some can swallow it

Does it really need stating that if overspend on credit cards it's my fault?

and the imf as well as the ecn have bent over backwards to throw more money to sustain a country run by a bunch of clueless idiots knowing full well that a lot of this money will never be repaid. That's loansharking is it? I think someone should ask what the Germans and others think of their cash being thrown at these tossers and see if they come up with the same reply. Money that has been earned. Not borrowed.
 
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Truth be told, I don't really know the finer details of how Greece came to such a sorry pass.
But what I am seeing is the unnatural and inhuman way the international banking industry, via its ****-lackey Merkel, is crucifying an entire country in a form that goes beyond cruelty and malevolence.
(Not just me is thinking that way -- shedloads of financial academics are saying the same).
 
No they are not. Because the ecb is not the banking industry. Simple as that. Indivudal banks have absolutely no say over imfif or ecb policy. That's simply wrong

so by completing them to actually pay taxes and retire at a reasonable age (67 by 2020 ffs) and pay marginally more vat is crucifying is it?

they are the most arrogant useless nation in the whole eu. They deserve all they get and more. Why on earth should other countries such as Ireland have made the bit reforms they unhesitatingly did whilst these twats completely refused to do so?

countries such as Slovakia have a much lower standard of living than the Greeks and have taken nothing. And yet they are supposed to subsidise their greed and laziness.
 
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clivex said:
and the imf as well as the ecn have bent over backwards to throw more money to sustain a country
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But that's the thing, isn't it.
I've read, rightly or wrongly, that 85% of the money given to Greece is to banks so that these banks then return that money to Franco/German banks. Greece, in essence, is just a conduit for funneling money back to global banking corporations.
The Greek people and the Greek state have only received only 10% of these bail-out funds, yet they are coerced by threat and actualization to repay all 100% of it. With interest.
 
That is simple maintaining of loans. What is wrong with that?
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The loans are being rolled over . The alternative is default. They were in the verge of defaulting to the imf for chrsitsake. That puts them witn Zimbabwe and other hellholes and ruins their future borrowing prospects for years to come.,

IThe the German and French banks were compelled to write of the debt then Greece would have to leave the euro. Full stop. If it left the euro it's economy would collapse largely because it simply doesn't export and it costs of imports would rocket
 
Fair enough. Like I say, I don't attest to knowing or understanding the functioning or appliance of international finance, so my posts and thinking on the matter is probably naive.
I'll just conclude that I think it is a sad situtaion that the ordinary Greek people find themselves in ........ living in doorways, hospitals without medicine, banks closed and atm's limited to £40 payout, etc etc.
It's a melancholy pass that Greece as a nation has come to -- the place that gave birth to western democracy, art and literature. A shame.
I'll leave it at that.
 
Corbyn is attracting plenty of publicity now. The observer analyses labours problems very nicely today but I think one aspect has been overlooked. It's not the fact that corbyn will or will not win that's the issue. It's the fact that he is looking like getting quite close. That resonates. It's the same as when the ultimate ministerial and idealogical failure, Benn, also almost became leader. Voters turned away

labour is finished but I can see a new party taking in the liberals developing. That would be the natural party of opposition and welcome imo.
 
It's probably called something like the SDP or New Labour

I note incidentally that Boris has been complaining to Dave that George and Teresa are bullying him and trying to humiliate him
 
I'm pretty disgusted that the cap on payment to nursing home fees has been delayed for several years as it had been promised in the manifesto for next [this?] year. I'm sure a lot of older people or people with elderly relatives would have voted for the Conservatives on that issue alone and it isn't as if they can blame not being in power last time and not knowing what fianacial state the country was in before promising it. Very shabby imo.
 
Warbler said:
It's probably called something like the SDP or New Labour

I note incidentally that Boris has been complaining to Dave that George and Teresa are bullying him and trying to humiliate him
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Thats where ore the voters are at. if the party drifts leftwards then it is finished. Socialism is dead of course. We all know that and the voters are more aware of its failures now than back in sdp days or even early new labour.

The tories have got to have effective opposition and a new party taking the best of labour to marry up with the lib dems on a centre left position is the way forward.

Corbyn becoming leader or even close to leader will be the catalyst that's required
 
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Can I ask.....As a person who seemingly couldn't care less about Labour, why do you care who they appoint, Clivex?

The Labour party is not supposed to be a parody of The Conservative party is it.
 
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Eh? I clearly stated why didn't I?

i think it is supposed to be electable ....don't you? Pretty obvious it isn't now.
 
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Sounds like you want someone you agree on but someone that in truth you're unlikely to ever agree with?

When Blair was in power I didn't hear him advising the Tories on who best to appoint...he was happy for the Howards and Smiths to sink the Conservative Party for the next twenty years.
 
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Clive wants a credible opposition Marb (one that could win an election) in order to keep the Tories honest and stop them drifting into corruption and sleaze. You see, deep down he knows that they're a cruel and punitive party (the "nasty party" as their own Home Secretary described them) and that if they haven't got a credible opposition they'd answer this calling. Whereas there's little evidence that it does prevent such behaviour, it can at least exert a degree of a brake on their excesses if they think they might get voted out.
 
Yes, to some extent.

What Cameron has in effect is a coalition with UKIP, albeit the MP's concerned hide under the banner of the conservative party in much the same way the Trots did to Labour in the early 1980's.

You don't need to be a genius to see that the European referendum is going to be what frames his second term, and once he wins that (and he will) he'll hand over power if he's good to his word (I don't see how he can stand for a third term to win an election for someone else). I think the problems with trying to sustain that position will become more and more acute. He's either going to have stand down or renege on what he said. If he thinks that Boris will beat Osborne though, I expect him to renege. If he judges that the referendum is his legacy, and that Osborne will beat Boris (who isn't gauranteed to make it to the final two anyway) then I think he'll step down

Come to think of it, is that how the Tories elect their leader still? It used to be a knockout system amongst the parliamentary party with the final two nominees then going forward to the party memebership
 
Warbler said:
Clive wants a credible opposition Marb (one that could win an election) in order to keep the Tories honest and stop them drifting into corruption and sleaze. You see, deep down he knows that they're a cruel and punitive party (the "nasty party" as their own Home Secretary described them) and that if they haven't got a credible opposition they'd answer this calling. Whereas there's little evidence that it does prevent such behaviour, it can at least exert a degree of a brake on their excesses if they think they might get voted out.
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words in mouth yet again. And rubbish. Waste of time
 
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