For me, the best of national hunt is all about galloping and jumping and bravery and digging in. Flat racing can have it's cruising and fancy-pants acceleration, and that has some place in NH as well, but give me a bold jumping galloper over a fleet-footed swoosher any day.
The Gold Cup 2010
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trackside528
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Don't get carried away, SteveM; as impressive as Denman was on Saturday, he certainy didn't win "as he liked."
Desert Orchid
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I've never been able to see that side of the discussion. Kauto is a very fast horse. It wasn't that far back he was winning Grade 1s over much shorter and I can't believe they go faster at Cheltenham in the Gold Cup than they do round Kempton in King Georges. He wasn't jumping well from early on the year before last. Nor does he have to dictate the pace.
If people are so fast to accept that Denman wasn't 100% last year, why are they so fast to assert than Kauto was 100% the year before?
Desert Orchid
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Yet after it he said Nicholls told him the only one he needed to worry about was What A Friend...
Eswarah
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I can't comprehend the negativity on Kauto, the horse has won G1's over 2miles and over 3 miles +. Denman may have his weight carrying performances but the stroll Kauto had in the Tingle Creek and last years Gold Cup stand out far more in my mind. I'll take my whippet over the tank.
Whats more Kauto has done it at tracks like Kempton, Sandown, Cheltenham, Haydock from 2 miles all the way to the Gold Cup trip. Denman needs a trip of 3 miles minimum and even then it has to be a big galloping track.
Denman is a tremendous horse but he is not the complete horse that Kauto Star is.
Grasshopper
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That's true, Gal - but versatility is different to level of performance reached.........not that I have a Rizzla between the pair on form anyway.
Agreed, but the versatility tips it in the favour of Kauto Star. Whats more the only real conditions (I think) that Denman can beat Kauto Star is testing or tacky conditions in excess of 3 miles - and even then KS could still give him a race.
In all other conditions I would expect Kauto Star to beat Denman for pace in the closing stages.
It's not that they go faster in the Gold Cup, it's that Kauto is not as good relative to Denman at Cheltenham than he would be at Kempton (for example). One of the reasons for this is that he doesn't jump half as well as Denman.
Nicholls was more confident than Walsh. Nicholls said he felt it was possible, but only believed it when he saw it.
The reason for the stength of opinion in Denman beating Kauto in the Gold Cup is that the Gold Cup is run over course and distance at Cheltenham. Kauto may well be preferred at Sandown in the Tingle Creek.
This is hardly being negative about Kauto, it's just that he's up against the best horse of modern times round Cheltenham.
Denman's a better steeplechaser. He can jump Kauto bandy. That Kauto has more speed over shorter trips is evident.
Katharine
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Part of the problem I have with this Kauto v Denman argument is because of the Gold Cup. It's seen as the blue riband for staying chasers but I don't see why it should be used to ultimately judge how good one horse is in relation to another, especially if those horses don't take one another on elsewhere.
Grasshopper
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I don't know if you're at the wind-up, Steve, but that is a bit simplistic...and contradictory to boot.
Put Denman in the Ascot Chase over 2m4f, and see how his jumping holds up against Kauto's. You are being far too dismissive of KS, and appear to have far too much between the pair.
It's a bit disrespectful to Kauto Star, to be honest.
Put Denman in the Ascot Chase over 2m4f, and see how his jumping holds up against Kauto's. You are being far too dismissive of KS, and appear to have far too much between the pair.
It's a bit disrespectful to Kauto Star, to be honest.
Irish Stamp
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Kauto would hammer Denman in the majority of races ie. 2m Sandown, 2 1/2m Ascot, 3m Haydock. IMO the only way that Denman will beat Kauto is over 3m 2f at Cheltenham.
Its a myth that Cheltenham requires more jumping ability than Kempton. Kempton has three quick fences at the business end of the race and they take real jumping ability to negotiate. Over the years, could be suggested that the KGV has often been a truer test of classy jumping ability than the GC
They have done a great job in getting Kauto to jump. He was never a natural jumper of a fence. This is not being disrespectful (as if that mattered) it's saying that they are different types of horses. Denman is a more natural and much better jumper of a fence.
...in steeplechasing's premier event in other words.
Not a myth, Cheltenham does demand more consistent, bigger and better jumping. The packed birch fences at Cheltenham are more of a test for a steeplechaser than anywhere (including Aintree).
Irish Stamp
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Steeplechasing premier staying event.
I think you have probably answered your own question Katherine. It's the best because the best contest it and the course and trip set the most exacting standard of all Grade 1 races over fences.
Is there another Grade 1 steeplechasing event I don't know about that is more prized?
Irish Stamp
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It depends if you own a 2 miler or a 3 miler Steve. I doubt that the owner of Viking Flagship or Moscow Flyer was ever tempted to run the horse in the Gold Cup.