The UK Political Landscape

People are tribal by nature and tribes are competitive (by fair means or foul) and tribes operate at all levels. At my school the tribes of individual school houses were fiercely competitive which was forgotten when it become the school tribe vs another school. Thus, bringing the world together as a single tribe seems to rely on combatting the aliens from Cirrus5. Then people will see themselves as earthlings first and foremost.
 
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I think, barjon, that maybe your school's ethos was connected in some way to the national project, i.e. the empire?
 
Don’t know about that, Grey. It’s just a reality in the way people interact. The most disturbing thing, I suppose, is that people will do things as part of their tribe that they would never dream of doing as individuals.
 
True enough, aggression and warfare are near universal tendencies but I think that some societies prepare people for it more than others.

The school I went to myself in the 1960s and 70s, a Jesuit college in Dublin, was founded in 1832, three years after Catholic emancipation, in order to prepare young men to enter the liberal professions and the (then British) civil and colonial service. Its ethos had followed the British model in most respects and had largely survived, I would say, into the modern era. There was even a branch of the Irish reserve army in the school, but that was done away with when the troubles broke out in the North and the authorities decided they didn't want any more spotty teenagers given access to arms than was strictly necessary. There was also a strong emphasis on sports, especially team sports. I often found it difficult to reconcile the gospel message of love thy neighbour to the urgent need to crush the other team on the rugby pitch, enjoyable though it was.

But this value system had originally evolved, I believe, in order to provide the British empire with the personnel needed to run it.
 
reet hard said:
I guess it's historical, and boils down the beligerent nations plundering the assets of the less warlike, and enslaving much of their population, either indigenously or shipping them abroad.
That culminates in what we have today, an imbalance of wealth distribution, where the poorer nations automatically become the underpriveliged. Historical racism, if you like.
Just my simple view, and restoring equality is hardly likely, while the powerful retain the reins in world politics.
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Just heard on the radio that Crown Estates(i.e. The Queen)
has assets of 14billion £. How sick is that?
 
…and every year they go through the ritual of surrendering all the income (around £350m) to the Treasury. I’d prefer the Queen “owned” all that land rather than others.
 
Can anyone explain to me why Nato, Ukraine, Boris Johnson, Joe Biden, Macron, and Chancellor Schultz cannot agree to admitting Ukraine should never join NATO and to give Putin this concession in writing?

It is one of Putins biggest issues and the people who take our collective American/British/French/German taxes to finance our international army should man up to this international army's leaders while also trying to talk sense to the current Ukrainian leader that his country should clearly never join NATO for very obvious reasons.

Our leaders in the West keep talking about diplomancy but they are not addressing the above issue which could actually make a difference while Ukraine and Russia are on the brink of war.
 
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Ukraine is merely his Sudenteland. A committment in writing would just be a'piece of paper.' The mistakes came in Clinton's administration. Russia was down in the dumps (Versailles) under Yelstin and they should have cut them a break with the dignity of a slow/nil NATO expansion.

The best solution might be an unfortunate slip down the stairs by Mr. P.
 
an capall said:
Ukraine is merely his Sudenteland. A committment in writing would just be a'piece of paper.' The mistakes came in Clinton's administration. Russia was down in the dumps (Versailles) under Yelstin and they should have cut them a break with the dignity of a slow/nil NATO expansion.

The best solution might be an unfortunate slip down the stairs by Mr. P.
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It would be a very important legally binding piece of paper though, Al.

It could certainly be worth a try if it's just a piece of paper, as it's one of Putins key demands.
 
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Even with a bit of paper, wouldn't stop Putin if he's so intent. He knows Nato/UN/USA/Us/Anyone else will do absolutely nothing physically about it. Freezing friends' bank accounts really isn't going to make him back down for one. Have to wonder in some ways why no one has tried to take him out.
 
G-G said:
Even with a bit of paper, wouldn't stop Putin if he's so intent. He knows Nato/UN/USA/Us/Anyone else will do absolutely nothing physically about it. Freezing friends' bank accounts really isn't going to make him back down for one. Have to wonder in some ways why no one has tried to take him out.
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I just think for the 'sake of diplomacy' perhaps the West could have conceded Ukraines possible future Nato membership.

Apart from that I agree there is not a lot more they can do and the writing has been on the wall for a while.
 
G-G said:
Even with a bit of paper, wouldn't stop Putin if he's so intent. He knows Nato/UN/USA/Us/Anyone else will do absolutely nothing physically about it. Freezing friends' bank accounts really isn't going to make him back down for one. Have to wonder in some ways why no one has tried to take him out.
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He came pheasant (not peasant...!) shooting very close to me a few years ago. There’s a shoot at a place called Combe Sydenham which has “high birds” so it’s classed as a very difficult and challenging place to shoot. Shame someone then didn’t accidentally miss the intended target...
 
Freezing his and his cronies bank accounts, and their ability to launder cash, is the only thing that will work. Shame he owns the tories and the US republicans.
 
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Marb said:
It would be a very important legally binding piece of paper though, .
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Legally binding pieces of paper mean nothing to people like Putin.

Look at the state of our government because Johnson can't do it. We're in the most morally bankrupt generation of politicians probably in modern times.

And Putin is playing the others like a penny whistle.
 
Marb said:
It would be a very important legally binding piece of paper though, Al.

It could certainly be worth a try if it's just a piece of paper, as it's one of Putins key demands.
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We were just discussing this today. I thought Ukraine had agreed to not join NATO and I think they should adhere to that agreement. Although I must admit to knowing very little about what has led to the current situation.
 
Why should Ukraine be dictated to by him as to what they can and cannot do? Why is it even acceptable for Putin to try and control another country's actions/wishes? Can't join NATO. What's next? I'm surprised he puts so much store by NATO in the first place to be honest.
Four bank accounts frozen I heard this morning. Wow, well he'll be trembling in the Kremlin. That'll stop him. :ninja:
 
I don't think it's the idea of freezing accounts etc is about fear, it's more the notion of destabilising his support structure.

He, like all senior politicians is ultimately held up by some serious financial clout, if you hit them then they question their loyalty to the 'boss'
 
G-G said:
Why should Ukraine be dictated to by him as to what they can and cannot do? Why is it even acceptable for Putin to try and control another country's actions/wishes? Can't join NATO. What's next? I'm surprised he puts so much store by NATO in the first place to be honest.
Four bank accounts frozen I heard this morning. Wow, well he'll be trembling in the Kremlin. That'll stop him. :ninja:
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Because becoming neutral and declaring Ukraine will never join NATO is about the only thing that will prevent a war at the moment.

Given no NATO troops will be put on the ground and the nuclear option is not an option it just seems a missed diplomatic opportunity to me.

When are they supposed to be joining Nato?

It shouldn't happen for the sake of the whole worlds national security.

The West can still send them guns and tanks etc and arm them but they are not directly in Nato and never should be for the sake of the worlds national security so why not just say this to the Russians before they get invaded?
 
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Just looking at the front page of the Metro as shown on the BBC home page.

"Defence sec: We kicked Russia's backside before... we can do it again"

So not only do we have a full-blown clown running our country, his defence secretary is clearly cut from the same cloth.

That must be one of the stupidest ever comments for a senior politician to make.
 
Odd, isn’t it. I can lose thousands on the stock exchange - as it looks like I’m going to do thanks to Ivan the Terrible - without anyone turning a hair. Yet I must be protected from losing a a hundred or so on the horses. Hey, ho, I guess it’s because one is the gentry’s speculation and the other the rabble’s gambling - but what’s in a word.
 
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Desert Orchid said:
Just looking at the front page of the Metro as shown on the BBC home page.

"Defence sec: We kicked Russia's backside before... we can do it again"

So not only do we have a full-blown clown running our country, his defence secretary is clearly cut from the same cloth.

That must be one of the stupidest ever comments for a senior politician to make.
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In a Government of national embarrassments, this clown's performance yesterday puts him straight into the medal positions.

A pitiable cretin of a man. If he's so gung-ho, then let him sign-up and head to wherever the front-line might be. Let's test his mettle by placing him somewhere he has the opportunity to kicks some Russian "backside". He can even take that other flag-shagging, rubber-johnny-stuffed-with-grapes Mark fu*cking Francios with him for company, if he likes. They can change each others nappies when the shelling starts.
 
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We have a couple of Russians that come in our local occasionally, he can come and practice on those if he likes.
They aren't very big girls!
 
The irony aswell. How many times have people commented on our Majesty's life which saw the horrors of WW2.

She might live to see World War Three yet..

(Hope not)
 
I see the wives of oligarchs have been banned from playing tennis with our leader until further notice. And consideration is being given to all Ruskies being banned from doing our lotto were there is a triple or more rollover. Our poundland Churchill certainly means business!!
 
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