Will Altior Be Beaten?

Double J said:
Think the race will be an anti climax. Altior winning easily with Top Notch sneaking second.
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The article DG posted says Top Notch won’t run and waits for the Peterborough (Nicky may have meant if Altior runs at Ascot)


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Desert Orchid said:
Is it possible Hendo is dictating riding instructions to Cyrname? Could it be that by suggesting Altior is all speed that they want Cyrname to make it a proper stamina test which they secretly believe will play into Altior's hands?
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Have trainers done this before? Reminds me of football managers bluffing if so. Could very well be. Always thought Altiors strength was his stamina seeing out the races not his speed. The year Douvan fell, he was being ridden from god knows where to stay on like a tank up the hill. If there was any stamina doubts I can absolutely gurantee they wouldn’t be stepping him up.

viking said:
The article DG posted says Top Notch won’t run and waits for the Peterborough (Nicky may have meant if Altior runs at Ascot)
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Cheers. I’m going for Altior and someone else in a forecast. I can’t have Cyrname. Genuinely think it’s a flash in the pan.
 
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Double J said:
Cheers. I’m going for Altior and someone else in a forecast. I can’t have Cyrname. Genuinely think it’s a flash in the pan.
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Flash In the pan once maybe but Cyrname has done it twice over course & distance. On his penultimate start, he beat Happy Diva over 20L giving that horse (also a c/d winner) 11lb. I think Altior is taking on a c/d monster.
 
swedish chef said:
Flash In the pan once maybe but Cyrname has done it twice over course & distance. On his penultimate start, he beat Happy Diva over 20L giving that horse (also a c/d winner) 11lb. I think Altior is taking on a c/d monster.
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I can’t have it, Cyrname was getting beat by Ozzie The Oscar this time last year getting 4 pounds off him. That is a monumental improvement, to even beat a maybe declining Altior, it’s too much.

I think Bristol is a Haydock monster, but if Cyrname does this, it’ll be like something I’ve never seen or will probably ever see again. Just in my opinion he can’t, and don’t think he’ll be within 8 lengths come the finish.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Is it possible Hendo is dictating riding instructions to Cyrname? Could it be that by suggesting Altior is all speed that they want Cyrname to make it a proper stamina test which they secretly believe will play into Altior's hands?
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I thought so too and, given that Altior has never looked like not staying further, there's every possibility he could find improvement for the longer trip.
Cyrname's last 2 runs were impressive, but moreso than Altior's record over the past 5 seasons? - I don't think so.
 
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Double J said:
Just in my opinion he can’t, and don’t think he’ll be within 8 lengths come the finish.
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I understand and your opinion is definitely in the majority, add in the anticipation and it becomes a must watch for jumps fans. My weeks normally fly by at work but this one is dragging as Saturday can't come soon enough. May the best horse on the day win and both come back safe.
 
As per the caution urged elsewhere re Cyrname, I was another seduced by Tenor Nivernais at Ascot a couple of seasons back and I've pretty much been paying for it ever since. The course can clearly throw up some performances that exaggerate superiority.
 
It is true that the horses in behind him in the Ascot Chase ran below form but it could be argued he did a Frankel/Denman in putting those horses in the pain zone with the pace he set. He might be a ratings buster like those two were.

Ironically Henderson it could be argued has the hurdling equivalent of Cyrname running later in the card. Call Me Lord would have been a fascinating runner in the Morgiana/Hatton's Grace but instead rocks up in the Coral Hurdle. This is a 160+ performer right handed - his run from a poor position off 160 in the Imperial Cup was pretty special (form franked big time by Monsieur Lecoq since.)
 
Euronymous said:
It is true that the horses in behind him in the Ascot Chase ran below form but it could be argued he did a Frankel/Denman in putting those horses in the pain zone with the pace he set. He might be a ratings buster like those two were.

Ironically Henderson it could be argued has the hurdling equivalent of Cyrname running later in the card. Call Me Lord would have been a fascinating runner in the Morgiana/Hatton's Grace but instead rocks up in the Coral Hurdle. This is a 160+ performer right handed - his run from a poor position off 160 in the Imperial Cup was pretty special (form franked big time by Monsieur Lecoq since.)
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Hendo likes Call Me Lord going right handed, pretty obvious from his stable tour. Danny whonused tk post onbhere was one who kept beating the Call Me Lord drunk as well.
 
Desert Orchid said:
As per the caution urged elsewhere re Cyrname, I was another seduced by Tenor Nivernais at Ascot a couple of seasons back and I've pretty much been paying for it ever since. The course can clearly throw up some performances that exaggerate superiority.
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Yeah Tamarinbleu is another that springs to mind.
 
And another thing. The day Cyrname bolted up the second time at Ascot, Nicholls had six winners that day. Wasn’t that the first Saturday after the equine flu scare, and weren’t Nicholls’ horses that bit further forward because they had their booster jabs earlier than all the other stables? That could have distorted the winning distance no end.
 
Len Madeiros said:
And another thing. The day Cyrname bolted up the second time at Ascot, Nicholls had six winners that day. Wasn’t that the first Saturday after the equine flu scare, and weren’t Nicholls’ horses that bit further forward because they had their booster jabs earlier than all the other stables? That could have distorted the winning distance no end.
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Yes that is a good observation. They cancelled racing for 1 week from the 7th Feb. All his opponents would have had a flu jab before they could run that day. I hope your wrong as I want to see a cracking race but that has put the first doubt in my mind.
 
Politilogue was also another 2 miler who people thought needed further but the KG found him out

Here is one for people

Of the 2 Cyr and Alt

Which is the more likely stayer at 3m if either?
 
Where do you draw the form line? People comparing Politologue which is fair enough and Cyrname smashed him out the park. Or do you use Min? Who can’t beat Altior but again smashed Politologue at Aintree.

I think Altior will be fine, though I’m beggining to question myself. Will do fine in the King George, I’d worry about the Gold Cup though. That’s a different kettle of fish altogether.

If Altior does the King George and wins the Gold Cup, hypothetically, does he go down as the GOAT?
 
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