2021 2000 Guineas

Has he though? He won a 4 runner trial where there is a massive rail bias. The O'Brien horse in the race is entered in a Group 3 on Monday. You don't need a run to win a Guineas. I think Battleground and Wembley will fight it out.

He’s shown it in terms of time (and I’m well aware that’s not the be all and end all). The others haven’t done so this season, so you are taking on trust that they can. Not unreasonable, I know, but a guess for all that. That said it wouldn’t surprise me if you and Desert were spot on :).
 
He’s shown it in terms of time (and I’m well aware that’s not the be all and end all). The others haven’t done so this season, so you are taking on trust that they can. Not unreasonable, I know, but a guess for all that. That said it wouldn’t surprise me if you and Desert were spot on :).
Every year I look for the word ‘quickened’ in the race descriptions of all the guineas runners and I’m pretty sure I’ve only seen that mentioned about him and Joseph’s horse. The fact that he’s out of a horse that I backed for the Guineas oh so many years ago means I’ll be cheering him on, even though it does make me feel terribly old.
 
Just bumping this from post #77.

I've edited out the NRs.

Just working my way through the ORs.

One Ruler 114
Chindit 113
Master Of The Seas 112
Devilwala 111
Naval Crown 111
Mutasaabeq 108

[So these have all stood their ground.]

Those are pretty depressing ratings. You'd have to figure Ireland could sweep the board on Saturday. I don't know the official Irish ratings but de-adjusting RPRs from the card puts their entries on:

SMB 119 [NR]
Thunder M 117
Wembley 117 [now 118]
Lucky Vega 116
Mac Swiney 115 [NR]
[Van Gogh 114]

Is any bookie offering odds against a clean sweep?

At 28/1 [now 20s] and 33/1 [NR] at the time of writing, I'm seriously thinking of nibbling at Lucky Vega (again, after being very clever and snaffling 18/1 last August...) and Mac Swiney, while at 100/1 [which I've now taken] Devilwala is clearly going to be overpriced if declared. I'll wait for the final decs, though.


And this is the field tabulated by OR with RPRs for comparison.

No.DrawFormHorseORRPR
15 8 22122- Wembley118 131
13 10 113- Thunder Moon117 131
6 3 12152- Lucky Vega116 130
11 7 21312- One Ruler114 127
14 9 62121- Van Gogh114 130
3 14 1119-1 Chindit113 128
2 15 5112- Battleground112 125
7 2 114-21 Master Of The Seas112 128
4 1 2748-4 Devilwala111 126
10 11 33-312 Naval Crown111 126
12 4 101-1 Poetic Flare109 123
8 12 1-1 Mutasaabeq108 123
5 5 21-2 Legion Of Honour104 117
9 13 1133-3 Mystery Smiles102 119
1 6 96-196 Albadri95 110

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I wouldn't have any doubt that any horse trained for the Guineas will fail for fitness whether it's had a run or not.
 
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Every year I look for the word ‘quickened’ in the race descriptions of all the guineas runners and I’m pretty sure I’ve only seen that mentioned about him and Joseph’s horse. The fact that he’s out of a horse that I backed for the Guineas oh so many years ago means I’ll be cheering him on, even though it does make me feel terribly old.

You're a youngster. I cleverly backed his great great granddam to win the Guineas in Ante Post Doubles at 33-1 with 2 Certs (Appalachee in the 2000 and Newcastle United in the Cup Final). The follies of youth.
 
Those are pretty depressing ratings. You'd have to figure Ireland could sweep the board on Saturday. I don't know the official Irish ratings but de-adjusting RPRs from the card puts their entries on:

Are the ratings really that important?

There's only 6Lb between the top rating and the 8th.

Pinatubo went into the race off an official rating of 128 last year, he finished the season on 121, which in hindsight was nearer his true mark.

Kameko went into the race off 118 and finished the season on 122, improved 4Lb, Wichita improved 4Lb too from a mark of 114. Pinatubo on the other hand had obviously reached his zenith the previous season, and he dropped 7Lb from his over-exaggerated official rating. He was obviously a very precocious 2-year-old, way ahead of the others, where some were not only behind him in maturity but were yet to reach their own full development. The mile was probably the upper limit of Pinatubo's stamina too!

This race has all the same question marks.....

In recent years a lot of 2,000 guineas winners never won again, some moved up in distance, some dropped down, some had not stopped maturing. It's not called the final 2-year-old race of the season for nothing, the difference here is; some have been freshened up and allowed to mature for several months. Many of the best horses have been beaten through, the draw, the pace or lack of it, stamina or lack of it. This race will be no different, as the betting would suggest.

It's a very intriguing contest this year, as with most 2,000 guineas, most of the principles already have, if's, what's, and maybe's in their locker. The race will most likely split into 2 maybe 3 small races on their own and this will inevitably prove to be a key component in cracking the code.

Aiden Obrien 1, 2, 3, for me....But in what order...Forget the ratings, they are and have proved in the past to be, meaningless in a race that's run 7 months late!
 
Ratings are by no means the be all and end all but they go a long way to reducing the amount of guesswork involved in a race.

I think Pinatubo is an argument for another thread.

The WFA table alone tells us how much - on a widescale average - juveniles can and do develop into their second season. Obviously some will do so more than others and some will do so enormously.

But ratings serve as a timely reminder of how they stood relative to each other at the end of last season and therefore a useful starting point when trying to find the winner.

They also go a long way to shaping the market. Sometimes market vibes, as in the case of Santa Barbara in the fillies' race, suggest home work might be more meaningful than public form but those instances are in the minority.

And on top of all that, the Guineas can just be funny races.

So the ratings are no more than a useful reminder but a reminder nonetheless.
 
The last two posts sort of sum up my earlier comments and disquiet. Where the principals stood relative to each other at the end of last season - either via the ratings or via each individuals personal assessment - is a useful starting point as Desert says. However, without being able to gain some idea of how they have progressed by seeing them out this season one is left at that starting point and unable to move forward. Thus, one can only guess at how they have progressed or try and read the runes of trainer comment (or market movement).
 
Are the ratings really that important?

There's only 6Lb between the top rating and the 8th.

Looking at the race again via RPRs, it's even more of a glorified handicap. 6lbs separate the top ten and the betting suggests both Poetic Flare and the Shadwell horse will improve enough to be in the mix.

There's a chance there could be up to ten of them across the track with a furlong to go. Anyone betting in running will need to have their wits about them.

Coming in from slightly left field (and I think someone else mentioned this maybe at the five-day stage) why is Mystery Smiles still in the race? Didn't the owners have a much shorter-priced entry? 150/1 for one that only has a couple of lengths to find with Master Of The Seas? That's worth 50p ew.

Speaking of 150/1 shots, Devilwala is also out to that price. I've gone in again.
 
Kieren Fallon, six-time champion jockey There’s only horse for me and that’s One Ruler, who I ride out most days at Charlie Appleby’s. The feel he’s given me recently is such that I’ll be very disappointed if he gets beat. He’s had a racecourse gallop at the track and I have a lot of confidence in him. It was a tough call for William [Buick], who has picked Master Of The Seas, and I reckon Charlie holds all the aces in the race
10/1; from a better judge than I'll ever be.
 
This is the mentalest renewal I can recall.

As far as I can see, every single horse, with the exception of the total rag, has been blue across the board at some time since the five-day decs.

This is as wide open as Linda Lovelace after a skinful.
 
This is the mentalest renewal I can recall.

As far as I can see, every single horse, with the exception of the total rag, has been blue across the board at some time since the five-day decs.

This is as wide open as Linda Lovelace after a skinful.

The Bookies have done a fine job over the past week, they have certainly made a good book for themselves.

Watch the money for Wembley in the hour before the off....It's the one horse that they have been afraid to compensate outward after the earlier morning exchanges!
 
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If I had taken 4/1 One Ruler after the Craven meeting I'd definitely be taking out sickness insurance at 12/1.
 
I think thunder moon is the most likely winner, however I think something might improve past the standard setters. I like poetic flair at 16s. He won the first 2 yr old race of the season last year, and wasn’t seen until running down the field in the dewhurst against in form race fit rivals on soft ground. For Bolger to even run him in that race when clearly going to be in need of the run suggests to me how highly he rates him.

He’s then won two listed races comfortably, the latter of which I quite like the form of. He will definitely improve for the trip he’s race fit still lightly raced and he’s a good price at 16s
 
OK folks.

Decision time.

You have a gun to your head and have to name one horse for the race.

Winner(s) survive(s).

I'll stick with my original ante-post selection Battleground.
 
OK folks.

Decision time.

You have a gun to your head and have to name one horse for the race.

Winner(s) survive(s).

I'll stick with my original ante-post selection Battleground.

Is the gun a Webley, if it is I surrender...mmmmmmmm.....Wemmmmmbley

Will have them in his sights, he'll be fired late, rifling home, and hopefully shoots past them all.
 
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My best guess of the first three.

1. Van Gogh

2. Chindit

3. Mutasaabeq

Good luck all. Enjoy.
 
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I think thunder moon is the most likely winner, however I think something might improve past the standard setters. I like poetic flair at 16s. He won the first 2 yr old race of the season last year, and wasn’t seen until running down the field in the dewhurst against in form race fit rivals on soft ground. For Bolger to even run him in that race when clearly going to be in need of the run suggests to me how highly he rates him.

He’s then won two listed races comfortably, the latter of which I quite like the form of. He will definitely improve for the trip he’s race fit still lightly raced and he’s a good price at 16s

Well done Ista! Should never underestimate a Bolger horse!
 
Yes well highlighted, Ista. Well done.

Poetic Flare looked a fine winner of what would appear a very good renewal.

I'm looking forward to seeing how good Mac Swiney might be now.
 
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Great race. Maybe not great form but great race.

Lucky Vega maybe slightly unlucky but the winner was always well up there and maybe should be marked up. We'll see what the sections say.

Interesting that Weaver didn't think Battleground was ready.

Well done Poetic Flare backers!
 
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I actually fancied the horse but he was pink on oddschecker this morning which put me off!

Enjoyed watching it though.
 
Two horses that had had a prep..1st and 2nd..from a low draw...on ground that suited.
 
Ground killed half the field. I'll go to war again with Wembley next time once it's not fast.
 
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