Godolphin

Think you got the wrong end of the stick, I replied to HAMM who quoted Gamla Stan's comments on Dettori.
 
beardo said:
I would say have a look at the ratings if you believe he would never have placed in that arc. He ran well below his best that day and the tactics would not have helped.
It isnt pocket talk either I backed Getaway that day!!!
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The ratings are irrelevant, he ran so badly he would never have placed no matter who was riding.
 
Gamla Stan said:
The ratings are irrelevant, he ran so badly he would never have placed no matter who was riding.
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If you watch the race the horse was given absolutely no chance of winning from where he started from especially after being told to be prominent. Hence why there was the falling out between Dettori and Pete Chapple Hyam.
Dont you think it is possible as well that Authorized having been purchased by Darley may have given instructions for the horse to be looked after?
 
Quite a conspiracy theory but it's possible, however that wouldn't be Dettori's fault though would it? It would be only following orders.
 
I would be thinking the opposite; if Authorized won, you could add at least another £10000 to his stallion fee.
 
Or if in the price of buying him there was a bonus if he won the arc or placed....mulder and scully would be proud
 
Just for the record, I'm also in the 'lack of motivation' brigade for Frankie and that would be the main reason why, if I had a horse (or a dead dog), I wouldn't want him to ride. However, to be fair I doubt anyone could lay the blame at Frankie's door for the poor showing of Godolphin in recent years. It's not like they've changed from another and then employed Frankie and it's all gone down hill is it? There's obviously a combination of things within Godolphin that's contributing to the poor form - lack of quality horses maybe, taking the horses to winter in Dubai, or anything else you care to suggest. What I'd be most interested in is this - have they changed anything from what they were doing previously? I don't follow the ins and outs of how they work but as far as I know the majority of the horses have always wintered in Dubai, Frankie's always been the main jockey where possible, Bin Suroor's always been the main trainer, Simon Crisford seems to have been in a top position for quite a long time etc etc. (If I've got any of those points wrong please correct me as I'm only working from my rather poor memory). When they've bought in horses who were with other trainers previously was there a time when they were running well after joining Godolphin? I'd guess at yes as if memory serves me correctly Daylami and Fantastic Light were both with other trainers previously and they did ok with them (I think?!). Were those horses an exception, was there a lot of other good horses that went to Godolphin and then went 'downhill' so to speak, or is that a more recent thing? Obviously there's always going to be horses that don't progress as much as expected from say two to three whatever trainer their with but Godolphin seem to have a lot.

I don't know the answers and this probably hasn't come across very well but in my mind something has obviously changed perhaps something less obvious than the jockey might have lost motivation or the trainer can't be bothered any more. But what is it?
 
Don't think Dettori was seen to best effect on Donativum on Saturday. Much was made of the horse being keen but he seemed to be travelling OK until Frankie switched him to race on the far side, that seemed to set the horse alight.
 
I think Donavitum had his head all over the place from the moment he left the stalls; either it was freshness or lack of cover what with it being a 5 runner race.
 
Well, I think they want their head feeling for running Donativum in that race. A 2-year-old winner over a mile dropped back to 7f, with the trainer being quoted " I expect him to run over a mile in due course" - well, that says it all. good that he did not say " I suspect ...." poor.
 
I thought Dettori's interview beforehand was very good, and he came across as more insightful than most jockeys.
 
He was insightful as I thought the horse was a shoe in before the race. After hearing him I left well alone. I do however worry again that even with the horse improving for the race and dropping in trip he should have been able to take the race comfortably. I hope they haven't done in another horse.
 
Hamm said:
I thought Dettori's interview beforehand was very good, and he came across as more insightful than most jockeys.
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funny isnt it how different things come across? I thought he looked bored and would have preferred not give any interview, let alone ride a horse that day.
 
crazyhorse said:
funny isnt it how different things come across? I thought he looked bored and would have preferred not give any interview, let alone ride a horse that day.
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It's a pretty good example of people interpreting things the way they want to - Hamm and yourself have clearly got your mind made up about Dettori in general, thus you "hear what you want to hear". The reality is probably somewhere in the middle.

My two cents is that Dettori is crabbed by some purely because he has been so successful.. for me he is one of the best riding at the minute. When you have achieved what he has and have a young family it's perfectly understandable for the motivation to slip a little, but I wouldn't want any one else on a horse of mine (I wish!) in a big race.
 
Donativum looked a bit short of work - he looked burly and hadn't tightened at all - and pulled far too hard in the race. I don't think he ever looked like he was going to win.
 
The horse they ran in the 3yo maiden on the same day, Seaway, was also far too fresh and pulled very hard throughout.
 
Dettori is crabbed because generally at the mid-week meetings he cannot be arsed. This was something Loder commented on and led to a souring of relations between the two when the latter was still training. On his day though when he does fancy it, there is nobody better. There is nothing more annoying than backing a hold-up horse in a race Dettori is on the front end in, you may as well throw your slip away. Check out his ride on Judgethemoment at Kempton earlier this year.
 
Hamm said:
I thought Dettori's interview beforehand was very good, and he came across as more insightful than most jockeys.
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Hamm I totally agree, I really am begining to like you as a member on here.

Cheers
 
davidjohnson said:
Dettori is crabbed because generally at the mid-week meetings he cannot be arsed. This was something Loder commented on and led to a souring of relations between the two when the latter was still training. On his day though when he does fancy it, there is nobody better. There is nothing more annoying than backing a hold-up horse in a race Dettori is on the front end in, you may as well throw your slip away. Check out his ride on Judgethemoment at Kempton earlier this year.
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I know the feeling - some of the other jockeys (wouldn't want to name names, but some mothers do 'ave em) can be made to look really stupid when Dettori (Robinson is also excellent) does one of those front running jobs.
 
The start of the decline in Godolphin fortunes coincided with the sadly premature death of Michael Osborne. He was manager of Sheikh Mo's Irish operations but he was much more important in the general scheme of things than his job title implied. It's hard to imagine, though, that one person could make such a difference. Perhaps there are one or two others who are equally missed?
 
Tom Albertrani and Kieren McCaughlin? Wasn't Jeremy Noseda an important cog at one time too?
 
Hamm said:
Tom Albertrani and Kieren McCaughlin? Wasn't Jeremy Noseda an important cog at one time too?
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I recall a few stories from Newmarket which suggested Noseda was too good at training them and knowing when they would win. They could do with him now!!
 
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