The Two Mile Chase thread

granger said:
I was in two of the fillies too, Art prob was too if i remember right

Might look to get involved in something again down the line
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There were a few others from here in those fillies. Mr Capall, Bar The Bull, me and Oran himself, of course. Little good it did us.
 
Tanlic, a question for you or anyone else who feels able to answer it.

Given Sprinter's medical history, is it safer for him to be very close to peak fitness any time he runs? Would running him when not fully fit be a risk?
 
I'm not an expert or a vet but I have read up on it but I have had some experience of nursing horses back to health and how time off the track can affect them.

As far as a heath risk goes absolutely not Grey. What people don't seem to understand is what Sprinter Scare had is not life threatening and very common among animals, that said, mainly in dogs.

When young pups have it they appear lethargic but normally a vet won't treat them and it just corrects itself in time..

Time off the track usually blunts a horse speed and there can be little doubt it's knocked a fair bit off Sprinters...That said he should be getting better with each run which seems to be the case as he's improved big time from last year to this imo.

As far as peak fitness goes you have a point and I am certain Nicky couldn't have got him any fitter than he was at Cheltenham, certainly not at that time of the year. The money spoke volumes that day and really he's bounced back to something like his best. 5lbs 10lbs below his best? how can you judge for sure? You can look at rating but horses very seldom tun to form they are about as predictable as the weather....how on earth did Norton Coin win a Gold cup he asks

The thing is he showed absolutely no ill effects so you would have to imagine he's back to his best health wise and Nicky can get back to training him like any other horse heading to Cheltenham.

If you cast your mind back to what Nicky said. "The aim is the QMCC in March and we will work our way back from there"

With that in mind there's a good chance Nicky under did it a bit and that's why the old untouchable speed about 4 from home never came about

Wouldn't be the first time a top trainer with a top horse, Cheltenham in mind (PN Kauto Star), misjudged it and got beat or came close to getting beat.

Maybe Sprinter has just gone at the game but I doubt that very much and I really don't think of UDS as being unbeatable.

Sprinter could jump better than him with his eyes closed and that is what I think will be UDS's downfall and he simply wont be able to match Sprinters jumping.
 
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We would all love SS to show up somewhere near his best as he would trot up. Big if though.
 
Grey said:
Tanlic, a question for you or anyone else who feels able to answer it.

Given Sprinter's medical history, is it safer for him to be very close to peak fitness any time he runs? Would running him when not fully fit be a risk?
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Rory has some very interesting thoughts on this - gist of it being that you are right Grey and that he has to pretty much tuned up every time he races now
 
Tanlic said:
I'm not an expert or a vet but I have read up on it but I have had some experience of nursing horses back to health and how time off the track can affect them.

As far as a heath risk goes absolutely not Grey. What people don't seem to understand is what Sprinter Scare had is not life threatening and very common among animals, that said, mainly in dogs.

When young pups have it they appear lethargic but normally a vet won't treat them and it just corrects itself in time..

Time off the track usually blunts a horse speed and there can be little doubt it's knocked a fair bit off Sprinters...That said he should be getting better with each run which seems to be the case as he's improved big time from last year to this imo.

As far as peak fitness goes you have a point and I am certain Nicky couldn't have got him any fitter than he was at Cheltenham, certainly not at that time of the year. The money spoke volumes that day and really he's bounced back to something like his best. 5lbs 10lbs below his best? how can you judge for sure? You can look at rating but horses very seldom tun to form they are about as predictable as the weather....how on earth did Norton Coin win a Gold cup he asks

The thing is he showed absolutely no ill effects so you would have to imagine he's back to his best health wise and Nicky can get back to training him like any other horse heading to Cheltenham.

If you cast your mind back to what Nicky said. "The aim is the QMCC in March and we will work our way back from there"

With that in mind there's a good chance Nicky under did it a bit and that's why the old untouchable speed about 4 from home never came about

Wouldn't be the first time a top trainer with a top horse, Cheltenham in mind (PN Kauto Star), misjudged it and got beat or came close to getting beat.

Maybe Sprinter has just gone at the game but I doubt that very much and I really don't think of UDS as being unbeatable.

Sprinter could jump better than him with his eyes closed and that is what I think will be UDS's downfall and he simply wont be able to match Sprinters jumping.
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Sorry Tanlic I cannot have that SS is anywhere close to 5 -10lbs near his best. At his best he would have beaten SDG without leaving 2nd gear. We will never ever see SS getting close to how good he was at his prime. Which is a shame as he was a beast of a horse. UDS beat SDG last week with little more than a squeeze of the reins and I don't think for a second that UDS is as good as SS was in the past.
 
Digger said:
Sorry Tanlic I cannot have that SS is anywhere close to 5 -10lbs near his best. At his best he would have beaten SDG without leaving 2nd gear. We will never ever see SS getting close to how good he was at his prime. Which is a shame as he was a beast of a horse. UDS beat SDG last week with little more than a squeeze of the reins and I don't think for a second that UDS is as good as SS was in the past.
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completely agree

at Kempton the splits show that he put in his big effort as he has done in his prime as they turned in..it stands out when you look at the times....but that effort damaged his final time enough to let Ar Mad beat his overall time..when SS was at his very best..that big effort didn't affect him..he put others to sword with it..but then..he carried on running on strongly in the last 3f....the reason he didn't destroy sdg at kempton is that big effort now empties him a lot more than it used to do. What made him better than anything around was..that big injection of pace..and the ability to add to it..last bit is missing on present runs.

I think the old SS would beat any of Mullins 2 milers..i don't think the current one can
 
i don't think it matters..he hasn't got the sustain after the injection of pace he used to have..the old SS would have beaten SDG double figure lengths at Kempton
 
We know he's not anywhere near as good as he was. He would have spat out SDG. He is though better on better ground. There's a 'chance' he can improve back on better ground. Plus UDS won't be any better for it. It's a big if clearly.
 
To be fair to SS, he is a good few pounds better off at Cheltenham. It's a course he seems to relish & his wins there prove that. He handles the undulations well and being such a big striding horse & impeccable jumper he always seems to make up ground effortlessly there.

On the other hand, given last years Arkle, UDS looked like like he wasn't as affective over the course as he had been on others. I think he only beat Gods Own 5 or 6 lengths so when you add that in it could make for a very interesting race.






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There has been Good in the going description for all of SS's comeback runs, with the exception of his return from injury at Ascot. On that basis, I wouldn't expect him to improve by any great amount for "better ground" or even for being back at Cheltenham. His Schloer victory looks increasingly moody, coming as it did against a collection of geriatrics, hounds or horses who were hopelessly outclassed anyway.

That said, I'm still nervous about UDS.
 
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EC1 said:
i don't think it matters..he hasn't got the sustain after the injection of pace he used to have..the old SS would have beaten SDG double figure lengths at Kempton
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The old Kauto Star would have beaten Old Vic by the length of a football field if he has been spot on mid season. A point I made but you chose to ignore which is very unprofessional of you :p


The answer is at Cheltenham on his return not at Kempton as I tried to explain and if 1lb is a length then from 4 out where he wins his races then he was 5 lengths slower... double it as it is half way and on time (Your fav subject) so he's ran 10lbs below his best. The ground may have been a a factor but lets not go there. It was a top class performance by anyone standards.

Stuff what happened at Kempton if you want to judge the horse on that race without giving good reason like I have for preferring to judge him on his Cheltenham run when he was mosat likely in much better physical shape then that's your prerogative

Lets see what happens in March......He's showed himself to be dodgy jumper at times this UDS and very often slows going into fences...upsides Sprinter he'll be lucky to get round..and if he does Sprinter will have broken him somewhere along the way.
 
Entries for the Tied Cottage on Sunday:

Felix Yonger 160
Flemenstar 160
Twinlight 156
Mozoltov 152
Bright New Dawn 148
Days Hotel 146
Nearly Nama'd 143
Draycott Place 128

Would look to be a straight shoot out between the top 2. With the forecast rain it's a hard one to call. Though while Felix is better on better ground, he handles anything. He should take this to be fair.
 
Heart ruling your head, Tanlic?

It is understandable, he was ​some machine and a horse that looked unbeatable, would love to see him back to his best but...........
 
Tanlic said:
The old Kauto Star would have beaten Old Vic by the length of a football field if he has been spot on mid season. A point I made but you chose to ignore which is very unprofessional of you :p


The answer is at Cheltenham on his return not at Kempton as I tried to explain and if 1lb is a length then from 4 out where he wins his races then he was 5 lengths slower... double it as it is half way and on time (Your fav subject) so he's ran 10lbs below his best. The ground may have been a a factor but lets not go there. It was a top class performance by anyone standards.

Stuff what happened at Kempton if you want to judge the horse on that race without giving good reason like I have for preferring to judge him on his Cheltenham run when he was mosat likely in much better physical shape then that's your prerogative

Lets see what happens in March......He's showed himself to be dodgy jumper at times this UDS and very often slows going into fences...upsides Sprinter he'll be lucky to get round..and if he does Sprinter will have broken him somewhere along the way.
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Special Tiara will beat him in March. ;-)
 
hezz said:
Entries for the Tied Cottage on Sunday:

Felix Yonger 160
Flemenstar 160
Twinlight 156
Mozoltov 152
Bright New Dawn 148
Days Hotel 146
Nearly Nama'd 143
Draycott Place 128

Would look to be a straight shoot out between the top 2. With the forecast rain it's a hard one to call. Though while Felix is better on better ground, he handles anything. He should take this to be fair.
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Felix needs good ground. I wouldn't touch him on heavy
 
He's won a fair few graded chases on heavy ground, even over 2m4f. He probably is a tad better on good ground but handles heavy perfectly well.

His last two Hilly Way wins have been in very testing conditions.

I think he'll win Sunday.


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Digger said:
Felix needs good ground. I wouldn't touch him on heavy
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He handles Heavy, just look at his recent record.

All about opposition, and outside of Flemenstar he faces nothing here he cant bat away with ease.
Though Twinlight is a headcase who could decide he wants to try on the day.
 
This will probably earn me whatever the Thai equivalent of a fatwa is from Tanlic, but I'm considering place laying SS at Cheltenham.

He'll be ridden to win the race, so that means keeping tabs on UDS. He isn't the horse he was, and this could hurt late in the race with others (not necessarily ridden to win) coming through for the places. Add in the fact that he'll be pulled up at the first sign of discomfort rather than battered in pursuit of third, and a place lay looks like a bit of value to me.
 
SS is about an 11/8 chance in the Place market.............bit bigger than I expected (or would get involved with myself), but I think it's a legitimate bet based on your thinking, Benny.
 
can't think what jp would have in this race Mr Mole and Uxizandre only ones that spring to mind and neither seem likely or have even been sighted for a while so i suspect barry will be available for either SS or Simonsig.

wouldn't be surprised if they stuck with nico for SS though.
 
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